American's...what do you think of Europe and Europeans?

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

@Lust4Life

Your revolutionary war as you call it was fought by Brits against Brits so were we being arrogant about ourselves to ourselves ?

Ummm…you & the Germans, you mean?
Hessian Mercenaries?
Remember?

[smiling_bandit]

@FRDE

@smiling bandit Would there be much animosity in Germany towards a 2nd generation Turk or Pole ?

Yes and no. It’s not normally hate or animosity.

But they’re simply not accepted. Turks - really all Middle Easterners, but mostly those are Turks - are segregated physically and mentally (that is, inside the “head” of Germans). The Germans would not either admit the to society or ask them to leave after their contracts were done in the years after WW2, so they stayed. But the Germans also won’t let them “in” into society, exactly.

In fact, I don’t think asking them to leave would have been evil; but they refused to choose. And the Turks stayed and had children, but don’t neccessarily think iof themselves as German. (I hear it’s much worse in France, but I’ve never been or read much about it there.)

The Poles are in a similar situation, kind of. There are actually fewer of them, but there’s been a persistent discrimination against the Poles for at least the last 300 years, and probably before that. The Poles had their own country ripped up then by the Prussians (Germans) and the Russians, a fact which repeated itself twice over since them. Ironically, the Poles were then quasi-democratic; Germans conquered them as a subject people, instituted religious discimination, and then have used the relative backwardness of Poland as an excuse to hate the Poles.

Likewise, the Poles are not accepted as immigrants, even though the Germans need the laborers. Moreover, the Polish economy is growing by leaps and bounds, where Germany is falling behind. France again has had a similar situation.

I’m not saying you’d experience some virulent racism all over, but a Pole or Turk or whatnot would be very welcome as an odd visitor - but could not easily fit in as an immigrant or settler. Sarkozy in France exemplifies this. He’s had problems fitting in not because he’s not good or intelligent, but because he’s not French enough for some people. Like Segolene Royale, however, he’s overcome prejudice to rise very high.

[FRDE]

@smiling bandit

Yes and no. It’s not normally hate or animosity.

But they’re simply not accepted. Turks - really all Middle Easterners, but mostly those are Turks - are segregated physically and mentally (that is, inside the “head” of Germans). The Germans would not either admit the to society or ask them to leave after their contracts were done in the years after WW2, so they stayed. But the Germans also won’t let them “in” into society, exactly.

I’m thinking back to 1976 when I found that a friend of mine’s wife was of Turkish extraction - a really nice couple. Mostly she was embarrassed as she was an English teacher.

I must confess I understand the Germans being worried by a wave of Turks who feel totally at home in Germany.

@smiling bandit

In fact, I don’t think asking them to leave would have been evil; but they refused to choose. And the Turks stayed and had children, but don’t neccessarily think iof themselves as German. (I hear it’s much worse in France, but I’ve never been or read much about it there.)

In France they have ghettos - we have the same in the UK - but outside those it is not much of a problem

@smiling bandit

The Poles are in a similar situation, kind of. There are actually fewer of them, but there’s been a persistent discrimination against the Poles for at least the last 300 years, and probably before that. The Poles had their own country ripped up then by the Prussians (Germans) and the Russians, a fact which repeated itself twice over since them. Ironically, the Poles were then quasi-democratic; Germans conquered them as a subject people, instituted religious discimination, and then have used the relative backwardness of Poland as an excuse to hate the Poles.

Sometimes it is difficult to detect a person of Polish ancestry

• the names get mixed up - and the Volksdeutscher

@smiling bandit

Likewise, the Poles are not accepted as immigrants, even though the Germans need the laborers. Moreover, the Polish economy is growing by leaps and bounds, where Germany is falling behind. France again has had a similar situation.

France and Germany do very well, I think Germany is Europe’s largest exporter.
They moan about their problems - but they both look sound to me.

@smiling bandit

I’m not saying you’d experience some virulent racism all over, but a Pole or Turk or whatnot would be very welcome as an odd visitor - but could not easily fit in as an immigrant or settler. Sarkozy in France exemplifies this. He’s had problems fitting in not because he’s not good or intelligent, but because he’s not French enough for some people. Like Segolene Royale, however, he’s overcome prejudice to rise very high.

I’m not that well versed on French politics, but noticed that Royale came from the ‘Ecole Nationale’ - and Sarkozy does not.
He would be unwise to dismantle an 80% functioning economy

• it will be interesting to see what he gets up to