# America's "Culture Wars" coming to an end (RW loses) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 17, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736 "2009-08-17T16:23:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736/1 "2009-08-17T16:23:29Z")
Not because of any swing-of-the-pendulum, but because of lasting generational/demographic changes. That’s according to [this study](http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/07/culture_wars.html) by the [Progressive Studies Program](http://www.americanprogress.org/projects/progressivestudies/) of the [Center for American Progress:](http://www.americanprogress.org/) > [@](#): > > . . . Looking back on Barack Obama’s historic victory in 2008, culture wars issues not only had a very low profile in the campaign, but where conservatives did attempt to raise them, these issues did them little good. Indeed, conservatives were probably more hurt than helped by such attempts—witness the effect of the Sarah Palin nomination. > > Attempts to revive the culture wars have been similarly unsuccessful since the election. Sarah Palin’s bizarre trajectory, culminating in her surprise resignation from the Alaska governorship, has only made culture war politics appear even more out of touch. And culture warriors’ shrill attacks on Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor have conspicuously failed to turn public opinion against her. > > Is this just a temporary breathing spell in the culture wars due to the sudden spike in concern about other issues—first Iraq, then the economy—or is a fundamental shift in our politics taking place? I believe the latter is the case since, as this report establishes, ongoing demographic shifts have seriously eroded the mass base for culture wars politics and will continue to erode this base in the future. That means that the advantage conservatives can gain from culture wars politics will steadily diminish and, consequently, so will conservatives’ incentive to engage in such politics. > > There are numerous examples of how demographic change is undermining the culture wars. First, Millennials—the generation with birth years 1978 to 2000—support gay marriage, take race and gender equality as givens, are tolerant of religious and family diversity, have an open and positive attitude toward immigration, and generally display little interest in fighting over the divisive social issues of the past. The number of voting age Millennials will increase by about 4.5 million a year between now and 2018, and the number of Millennials who are eligible voters will increase by about 4 million a year. The 2020 presidential election will be the first where all Millennials will have reached voting age, and at that point the generation will be 103 million strong and have about 90 million eligible voters. Those 90 million Millennial eligible voters will represent just under 40 percent of America’s eligible voters in that year. > > Second, the culturally conservative white working class has been declining rapidly as a proportion of the electorate for years. Exit polls show that the proportion of white working-class voters—scoring just 46.3 out of a 100 on the Progressive Studies Program comprehensive 10-item progressive cultural index covering topics ranging from religion, abortion, and homosexuality to race, immigration, and the family—is down 15 points since 1988, while the proportion of far more culturally progressive white college graduate voters (53.3 on the index) is up 4 points, and the proportion of minority voters (54.7 on the index) is up 11 points. State after state since 1988 has replicated this general pattern—a sharp decline in the share of white working-class voters accompanied by increases in the shares of minority voters and, in most cases, of increasingly progressive white college graduate voters. > > Other demographic trends that will undermine the culture warriors include the growth of culturally progressive groups such as single women, and college-educated women and professionals, as well as increasing religious diversity. Unaffiliated or secular voters are hugely progressive on cultural issues and it is they—not white evangelical Protestants—who are the fastest-growing “religious” group in the United States. > > \ > > **Demographic changes are generally reducing the salience of culture wars issues to politics, even when they are not shifting the distribution of public views.** That is the case with abortion. Millennials want to see a smaller role for religiously motivated social views—64 percent in the PSP youth survey say “religious faith should focus more on promoting tolerance, social justice, and peace and less on opposing abortion or gay rights.” This will reduce the influence of conservative abortion views on politics. So will the rise of Hispanics, whose lack of interest in voting on the basis of abortion has been well documented. > > The culture wars, far from coming back, are likely coming to an end as a defining aspect of our politics. This is good news for progressives, both because tolerance and equal rights will increasingly be the ethos of the country and because progressives will increasingly be able to make their case on critical policy issues without significant interference from “hot-button” social issues promoted by conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736/2 "2009-08-17T19:34:56Z")
IMHO, this administration has done everything within it’s power to make sure the culture wars have been stoked to their highest since the 60s. We have rich pitted against the poor in the changes in taxation plans to pay for “stimuless” package and UHC funding. We have racial issues, which the President himself has helped ignite, and his supporters crying racist at any hint of differing opinion or debate with his policies. The Culture Wars have been ignited, just not by the usual sources. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736/3 "2009-08-17T19:41:29Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > We have rich pitted against the poor in the changes in taxation plans to pay for “stimuless” package and UHC funding. We have racial issues, which the President himself has helped ignite, and his supporters crying racist at any hint of differing opinion or debate with his policies. How do you figure? Rich versus poor is not generally considered part of the culture war (I think you’re confusing it with the “class war”). And Obama’s Beer Summit basically put an end to all of the Gates-related nonsense. I haven’t heard anything about it since. Anyway, I agree completely with the article and have been making a similar point on these boards for years. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736/4 "2009-08-17T19:48:50Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > How do you figure? Rich versus poor is not generally considered part of the culture war (I think you’re confusing it with the “class war”). And Obama’s Beer Summit basically put an end to all of the Gates-related nonsense. I haven’t heard anything about it since. > > Anyway, I agree completely with the article and have been making a similar point on these boards for years. The wheels came off Obama’s wagon with the Gate’s incident and he’s been skidding ever since. The beer summit did nothing to mend his relationship with middle America which he curdled by wading into the issue in the first place. The haves vs the have nots is a central part of this administration’s Socialist leaning policies, so it is very much a culture/class war. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736/5 "2009-08-17T19:56:17Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > We have rich pitted against the poor in the changes in taxation plans to pay for “stimuless” package and UHC funding. The rich have ALWAYS been pitted against the poor, ever since there was anyone who hogged enough resources to qualify as rich by his society’s standards. Obama didn’t start it anymore than he’ll end it. As for increasing taxes on the rich; in the long run it’s that or watch the country collapse. The rich have most of the money, and the country can’t survive the poor and middle class carrying the rich on their back indefinitely. Sooner or later, the rich must be forced to give back, or the system will collapse. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736/6 "2009-08-17T19:57:40Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > The haves vs the have nots is a central part of this administration’s Socialist leaning policies . . . :rolleyes: But, they’re not. E.g., UHC is not socialist (though any good socialist would support it); and Obama seems to be backing away from it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736/7 "2009-08-17T20:01:18Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > We have racial issues, which the President himself has helped ignite . . . :dubious: How so? ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736/8 "2009-08-17T20:04:02Z")
Obama’s been president for a couple of months now and I’m disappointed, nay furious, that all of the world’s problems aren’t fixed yet. When we voted for change, we meant like right-now change. What a failure of a presidency. /s ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736/9 "2009-08-17T20:11:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :dubious: How so? He’s black, duh. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736/10 "2009-08-17T20:12:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :dubious: How so? His response to the Gates issue. Which I’ll admit was probably fueled more by Gates being a close friend, but the perception was otherwise. He would have been so much better off just saying the investigation was still in process and that he couldn’t make any comments. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736/11 "2009-08-17T20:19:21Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > We have racial issues, which the President himself has helped ignite, and his supporters crying racist at any hint of differing opinion or debate with his policies. You know, as a bleeding-heart liberal, I just don’t see it that much. Yes, there are some people who oppose Obama because he’s black, and they’re rightly called out for it, but on the whole I think most of the opposition to the Obama Administration’s policies come from actual criticism of the policies, whether honest disagreements or dishonest fearmongering. And I don’t really see his supporters bringing up race, only responding to it when others bring it up. Race has been a smaller factor here than I expected, and I’m pleased to see it. I had my doubts as to whether the racist fringes could be ignored, and I think they’re successfully being shown to be a small but vocal minority. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736/12 "2009-08-17T20:38:53Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > IMHO, this administration has done everything within it’s power to make sure the culture wars have been stoked to their highest since the 60s. > > We have rich pitted against the poor in the changes in taxation plans to pay for “stimuless” package and UHC funding. We have racial issues, which the President himself has helped ignite, and his supporters crying racist at any hint of differing opinion or debate with his policies. > > The Culture Wars have been ignited, just not by the usual sources. How odd that when the rich get a big bonus and the poor and middle class get nothing - in fact lose out - it isn’t a class war, but when the status quo ante is to be restored when the trickle down didn’t work, it is a class war. Any cites that the Gates affair affected anything in the long term? The issue now is that Obama didn’t call Palin and Rush on their lies about the healthcare proposal. We know historically that the Big Lie does work, especially when there is a propaganda channel that pushes it unchecked. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736/13 "2009-08-17T20:44:40Z")
For the OP, I agree. I’ve lived through another culture war that came to an end. When I was starting college lots of dorms had strict requirements about mixing of the sexes and overnight stays (as in forbidden, with curfews.) Some people still needed to lie when checking into a hotel with someone not their wife. Some apartments wouldn’t rent to unmarried couples. Look at **Three’s Company**. The premise of that show wouldn’t exist today. Reagan was the first divorced president. Another barrier fallen. And drug use as a youth no longer matters. In 30 years the current ones will be gone too, and I bet the Republicans will be nominating a gay candidate. I mean one out of the closet before getting seated. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736/14 "2009-08-17T21:28:19Z")
What I find most interesting is the finding that “Demographic changes are generally reducing the salience of culture wars issues to politics, even when they are not shifting the distribution of public views.” IOW, WRT abortion, there might still be the same proportion of pro-lifers in the population 20 years from now as there are now, but they will no longer give that issue weight in deciding how to vote. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736/15 "2009-08-17T22:12:25Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > And I don’t really see his supporters bringing up race, only responding to it when others bring it up. Try [here](http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2009/08/07/cynthia-tucker-45-65-townhall-protesters-are-racists) and [here](http://washingtontimes.com/weblogs/back-story/2009/apr/17/liberal-actress-says-tea-parties-were-racist/) for just a couple of quick examples ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736/16 "2009-08-17T22:18:01Z")
Wow, it must be tough to have Janeane Garafalo call you a big racist. And then to have Keith Olbermann not once challenge her assertions! Now I suddenly understand why conservatives are so upset about this issue. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736/17 "2009-08-17T22:24:22Z")
Eh, maybe. You can’t just assume that people’s political views won’t change as they get older, though. We’re still struggling with legalizing pot when most voters alive now are at or under the age when pot smoking was common. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736/18 "2009-08-17T23:33:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What I find most interesting is the finding that “Demographic changes are generally reducing the salience of culture wars issues to politics, even when they are not shifting the distribution of public views.” IOW, WRT abortion, there might still be the same proportion of pro-lifers in the population 20 years from now as there are now, but they will no longer give that issue weight in deciding how to vote. Regarding the issue of abortion, that might be because there’s little chance anything is going to happen. The Democrats control the White House and Senate, so there’s no chance a pro-life justice will be chosen for the Supreme Court. Thus, _Roe v. Wade_ is likely to stand for awhile. Anyway, most of the so-called “culture war” was made up of what I call “junk food issues”–the political equivalent of empty calories. They get a lot of people interested and inflamed but ultimately no have little or no importance in how the country is governed. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736/19 "2009-08-17T23:51:28Z")
Well, I for one was stunned to hear that the Progressive Studies Program of the Center for American Progress is predicting a shift towards more progressive views in the cultural arena. Who could have seen that one coming? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736/20 "2009-08-18T00:16:21Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Well, I for one was stunned to hear that the Progressive Studies Program of the Center for American Progress is predicting a shift towards more progressive views in the cultural arena. Who could have seen that one coming? [/QUOTE] Pretty much my first thought as well. Ok…that and the fact that BG is the OP. 😛 As for the OP…I seriously doubt it. All that will happen is the battlefield will shift to something else. Cultural wars are always happening…and they never end. No one ever really wins, since society is just about always in a state of flux… -XT [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-culture-wars-coming-to-an-end-rw-loses/506736.md?page=2)