# America's fear of terrorism is mostly irrational xenophobia **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 18, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499 "2016-01-18T14:30:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/41 "2016-01-18T19:30:21Z")
Here’s a [citation](http://www.gallup.com/poll/159584/parents-fear-children-safety-school-rises-slightly.aspx) that would seem to support your position, **Malthus**. It shows less concern about the subset of mass shootings that involve schools, at least, over time. Has there indeed been an increase in the frequency of such events? I had thought they were so rare (\<10 per year if defined as a shooting in which more than 3 people die) as to be basically statistical noise. And does it follow that more foreign terrorism might lead to less fear of it? That would be a paradoxical result indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/42 "2016-01-18T19:35:03Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > If I’ve done so, it wasn’t intentional. Perhaps you can clarify. Are you not claiming that the fears are rational because in the future there may be dramatically more terrorism to the point that it becomes rational for an individual to fear it? I may have slightly misread your reply to me. I thought you were suddenly reducing the argument to fears over my particular death rather than myself and family. Im imagining my entire family and friends here, people I know well. Thats suddenly an awful lot of people who may be in potential danger. Many of these people will no doubt spend some time in more dangerous areas than Smallsville, Tennessee. I do not live in an area with a high likelihood of terrorist activity. I doubt very much if I am in danger. Then again I don’t believe respondents to the poll question feel themselves in danger either. It’s my opinion many of the respondents are trying to send a political signal. Im always reminded of a poll of Democrats a year or two after 9/11. A surprisingly large number believed the Bush Administration planned or knew of the attacks. It’s my opinion many of these respondents believed no such things. Rather, frustrations were showing themselves in their replies. I think the same is happening here. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/43 "2016-01-18T19:38:30Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I may have slightly misread your reply to me. I thought you were suddenly reducing the argument to fears over my particular death rather than myself and family. Im imagining my entire family and friends here, people I know well. Thats suddenly an awful lot of people who may be in potential danger. Many of these people will no doubt spend some time in more dangerous areas than Smallsville, Tennessee. No such reduction intended. But I’m not sure it makes a difference. If the numerator becomes you and your friends (and similar people in other western industrialized countries), including those who might travel abroad, then the denominator also grows substantially. In the US, even if you include Americans killed while abroad, the number of deaths is still far, far lower than many other preventable or even scary forms of death. And yet this one has a special salience. > [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I do not live in an area with a high likelihood of terrorist activity. I doubt very much if I am in danger. Then again I don’t believe respondents to the poll question feel themselves in danger either. It’s my opinion many of the respondents are trying to send a political signal. Im always reminded of a poll of Democrats a year or two after 9/11. A surprisingly large number believed the Bush Administration planned or knew of the attacks. It’s my opinion many of these respondents believed no such things. Rather, frustrations were showing themselves in their replies. I think the same is happening here. Maybe. What signal do you think that is? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/44 "2016-01-18T19:39:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Think of gun control. A disproportionate amount of the discussion centers around mass shootings even though they represent only a tiny fraction of gun deaths in the US. We get days and days of coverage whenever there is a mass shooting, but most gun deaths go either unreported, or reported only locally, and not on the front page. And of course, people use the term "Gun deaths’ instead of “gun homicides’ to artificially increase the numbers and fear. (Most"gun deaths” are suicides) There were significantly less than 10000 gun homicides per year in the USA. Quite a bit less than deaths caused by DUI. 50000 Non-smokers die each year due to second hand smoke. nearly 500000 deaths caused by smoking. But you see, Terrorism comes out of no-where and the average American is powerless to prevent it. That’s scary. People are also scared of snake bite, sharks and other things that are\* statistically\* not a issue. But that doesnt stop them from being scary. So, no, it has nothing to do xenophobia. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/45 "2016-01-18T19:40:34Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Flying is safe. Driving is decidedly unsafe. > > So one of those is rational and the other is not. > > Do you agree that fear of terrorism is irrational? You control your own fate while driving, but rarely while flying. Not really irrational. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/46 "2016-01-18T19:41:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, no, it has nothing to do xenophobia. Why is terrorism the top fear, in your view, much more feared than sharks or mass shootings or air crashes or other things people also irrationally fear? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/47 "2016-01-18T19:41:36Z")
In general these xenophobic irrational fears can be explained by both the “Fundamental Attribution Error” and the “Ultimate Attribution Error” [http://www.understandingprejudice.org/apa/english/page9.htm](http://www.understandingprejudice.org/apa/english/page9.htm) You can see this throughout history with the hate of the Irish, Catholics, Hispanics and now Muslims. These attribution errors are pervasive and it also explains how the same individuals I have spent my life with through half a dozen very close terrorist attacks by white christians irrationally fear attacks by islamic individuals which they have never experienced in their close proximity. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/48 "2016-01-18T20:01:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You control your own fate while driving, but rarely while flying. Not really irrational. No, it’s completely irrational. An irrational belief doesn’t become rational just because you came up with a psychological hypothesis to explain it. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/49 "2016-01-18T20:05:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You control your own fate while driving, but rarely while flying. Not really irrational. The irrational part is that people tend to think they are better than average drivers, this _Illusory superiority_ is a cognitive bias that is very well documented and does result in a irrational fear of flying. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/50 "2016-01-18T20:06:53Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > No such reduction intended. But I’m not sure it makes a difference. If the numerator becomes you and your friends (and similar people in other western industrialized countries), including those who might travel abroad, then the denominator also grows substantially. In the US, even if you include Americans killed while abroad, the number of deaths is still far, far lower than many other preventable or even scary forms of death. And yet this one has a special salience. > > **Maybe. What signal do you think that is**? Probably a signal to curtail immigration from Islamic countries, or at least a warning that people are genuinely concerned over the issue. As with so many great debates people have a wide variety of conflicting opinions. People responding to this poll question are probably delivering a warning of sorts to the US Government to keep it’s guard up. I think Americans perhaps view what is going on in Europe with some fear; that mass migration has lead to certain problems with Muslim communities in Europe. It’s my opinion that these poll respondents are showing their snarled teeth to the US Govt and doing so in quite a sophisticated way. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/51 "2016-01-18T20:18:33Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Why is terrorism the top fear, in your view, much more feared than sharks or mass shootings or air crashes or other things people also irrationally fear? Terrorism kills more people than shark attacks, and you _can_ stay out of the ocean. Or not fly. Since, at least for this year- mass shootings are mostly terrorism (or perhaps they all are, depending on how you define the term), it’s reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/52 "2016-01-18T20:20:48Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > No, it’s completely irrational. An irrational belief doesn’t become rational just because you came up with a psychological hypothesis to explain it. Why is a fear of dying a horrible flaming death “irrational”?:rolleyes: Just because there’s something else that kills more people? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/53 "2016-01-18T20:42:36Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Pretty simple. Terrorism provides an ideal justification for endlessly expanding the size and power of government. Politicians and their allies always want to expand the size of power of government, so they always talk about terrorism. Whether the goal _du jour_ is a larger military budget, warrantless wiretapping and NSA data collection, or more unionized TSA employees, it can be shoehorned into some sort of anti-terrorism action. Even things totally unrelated to security, such as corporate bailouts and food regulations, somehow end up having something to do with terrorism. > > Fear of death by snakebite or lightning strike doesn’t justify expanding government nearly as well. Good thing we have those guardians of limited government, the Tea Party, to keep the forces of big government in check. Good thing that Tea Partiers are not racist and xenophobic and would never support anti-Muslim measures. Those pesky liberals and their big government ideas are the problem, right? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/54 "2016-01-18T21:10:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > CNN is the network that first comes to mind for you when it comes to xenophobia? Maybe it is. It’s easy to characterize FoxNews as an outlier that doesn’treally “count” as a news network. Personally, I believe that ALL televised “news” providers are the antithesis of news, and I consume none of their products. If that means that I miss out on learning which deodorant body spray is most likely to get me ravished (gently) by throngs of 21st-century Maenads, well, that’s life. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/55 "2016-01-18T21:15:35Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Indeed. That one got a :dubious: from me. > > The Right’s propaganda network has done an excellent job of fanning the flames of xenophobia. To hear them tell it, Muslims (Because all Muslims are terrorists, right?) are planning to go door to door like Girl Scouts, and behead people. Really? How’s that supposed to work? You sign up for your beheading, and six weeks later, they send a curly-headed moppet to your door to collect your payment (and your head)? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/56 "2016-01-18T21:24:40Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why is a fear of dying a horrible flaming death “irrational”?:rolleyes: Just because there’s something else that kills more people? That’s not what I said and not even close to what we were discussing. Your claim was that it’s “not irrational” to believe that driving is safer than flying because “you control your own fate”. But since driving is statistically much more dangerous than flying (by some measures as much as 1000 times more dangerous), that belief is clearly wrong. As I and **rat avatar** have already pointed out to you, just because you can identify the psychology that makes someone cling to an irrational belief doesn’t make it either rational or correct. “Rational” means “based on facts and reason”. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Good thing we have those guardians of limited government, the Tea Party, to keep the forces of big government in check. Good thing that Tea Partiers are not racist and xenophobic and would never support anti-Muslim measures. Those pesky liberals and their big government ideas are the problem, right? Good point. I believe the argument that **ITR Champion** is making is that fear of terrorism is simply the result of a government conspiracy. I think it’s just a corollary of the broader belief that government should be blamed for pretty much everything bad that has ever happened, including the zit you just noticed this morning and that your cat has fleas. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/57 "2016-01-18T21:43:32Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > …I think the best explanation for the evidence is that humans, generally speaking, are hard-wired to fear foreigners. The more different and exotic they are, the more they are feared. We get much more upset when a foreigner kills someone from our tribe than when a snake does, or lightning does, or one of us does. In the modern world, there is no rational basis for that fear. (post shortened) In the modern world, there are groups who have repeatedly stated that they want to kill Westerners, Europeans, Americans, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, etc. Their reasons vary but these groups all share a goal of murdering others in order to expand their influence and raise money for themselves. And some of their attacks are successful. The main reason why these groups haven’t been more successful is the efforts by law enforcement agents and military personnel. Different and/or exotic doesn’t necessarily lead to fear. It’s the threats of violence, calls for more violence, and actual acts or violence that lead others to fear, or be very concerned, or be somewhat concerned, about the violence of the violent groups. It makes no sense to disregard the threats and violent acts of foreigners. Of course people are very worried, or somewhat worried. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/58 "2016-01-18T21:44:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But it would be interesting to see a similar poll taken in Canada, the UK, France and Germany. We might find that Americans aren’t so unusual. Except Canadians would be pretty rational about the whole business, of course. 🙂 Here are some comparisons in terms of the Syrian refugees. I don’t think they’re entirely fair comparisons because the Canadian poll was taken shortly after the Paris attacks and the question relates to admitting 25,000 Syrian refugees by year end, which at the time was barely four weeks away, and there was justifiable concern that the accelerated pace wouldn’t allow for proper screening. Since then, the year-end objective was scaled down to 10,000 and the 25,000 goal moved back to the end of February. That said, these are the poll indicators: Trudeau was elected with a majority based on a platform that included the 25,000 Syrian refugee promise, so clearly that wasn’t a show-stopper and might even have been a vote draw. Later in November, however, a Global News poll found that 60% of Canadians were opposed to the refugee plan, specifically stated as the plan to bring in 25,000 by year end. A Forum Research poll, also in November at about the same time, found that just over half, or 51 per cent, of those surveyed in the poll said they disapprove of the government’s plan to settle 25,000 Syrian refugees across the country. Another 41 per cent approved and nine per cent did not have an opinion. Now here are the comparative statistics. The poll found 67 per cent of Canadians believe terrorists pretending to be refugees could enter our borders. A separate Ipsos poll conducted in both the United States and the United Kingdom found this number jumps to 81 per cent, fuelling debate in the US to halt refugee resettlement programs entirely. But while the majority of Canadians oppose the federal government’s plan, a similar majority (67 per cent) reject the idea of closing the country’s borders entirely, while only 33 per cent agree. In other findings, 75% of Canadians believe there is a real threat of an attack on home soil – up 14 points from a poll in October. In the U.S. the number is up ten points to 91%. “Of the three countries we looked at, by far the most immigrant-friendly is Canada,” said one of the pollsters. Some poll numbers, anyway, make of it what you will. My main take-away is that most of the raving xenophobia in the US seems to be coming from right-wing factions, and the principal Republican presidential candidates seem to be engaged in a contest of trying to outdo each other in their advocacy of border closings and Muslim-banning. [Link](http://globalnews.ca/news/2352983/60-of-canadians-disagree-with-liberal-plan-to-accept-syrian-refugees-ipsos-poll/). ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/59 "2016-01-18T21:52:12Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Different and/or exotic doesn’t necessarily lead to fear. [Except when it does.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=779362) Which seems to be [far too often](http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/01/13/syrian-refugees-pepper-sprayed-in-vancouver-still-grateful-to-canadians.html). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/60 "2016-01-18T21:53:47Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > That’s not what I said and not even close to what we were discussing. Your claim was that it’s “not irrational” to believe that driving is safer than flying because “you control your own fate”. But since driving is statistically much more dangerous than flying (by some measures as much as 1000 times more dangerous), that belief is clearly wrong. As I and **rat avatar** have already pointed out to you, just because you can identify the psychology that makes someone cling to an irrational belief doesn’t make it either rational or correct. “Rational” means “based on facts and reason”. > . Again- Why is a fear of dying a horrible flaming death “irrational”? Just because there’s something else that kills more people? are you claiming that in order for a fear to be “rational” you can only fear them in descending order of chance of occurrence? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499.md?page=4)