# America's fear of terrorism is mostly irrational xenophobia **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 18, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499 "2016-01-18T14:30:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/101 "2016-01-19T13:40:30Z")
I’m interested in the responses that acknowledge the irrationality but find it to be no big deal. Would you feel the same way if our national politics were focused on (and spending trillions on) preventing shark attacks or asteroid strikes? ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/102 "2016-01-19T13:40:55Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > No. No, they just don’t. People who see every issue (and every group of people) as pure black and white are delusional. The world if full of gray, my friend. 9/11 terrorists? I’ll go with bad there. My co-worker, a Muslim from Turkey? Great guy, and as peace loving as anyone I know. And actually an active force for good. > > Stop buying what Trump and his kind are selling. It’ simply hate. That’s all it is. I think this is the crux of the problem. People are putting out strawman arguments on both sides. The crux of the issue is this; there is an undoubted problem within sections of the Muslim community(we can take it as given that conservatives tend to exaggerate the problems, liberals tend to minimise them). Are Muslims as a whole reformable? I don’t think anyone knows the answer for sure. It all depends upon which ideology Muslim immigrants(and future generations) embrace: radical Islam or Western liberalism? The answer to that question no-one yet knows. I tend to come down on the conservative side, that we in the West probably shouldn’t import such a vast potential problem. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/103 "2016-01-19T15:38:03Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > US OK. This site [here](http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shootings/2015) lists 331 mass shootings in the US in 2015, with a total of 367 deaths. I don’t think 166 people were killed by muslim terrorists in the US last year, so please could you provide a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/104 "2016-01-19T15:47:38Z")
> [@Dajn](#): > > If a Muslim family moved in next door to me I would not be happy about it. The problem with guys like you is you think others think like you. Muslims do not think like you. I really do not think that you think like me. I am prepared to believe that some muslims may think like me. As such it appears that I would be happier about a muslim family living next door to me than you. Considering a muslim family do live next door to me, and they’re really quite good neighbours\*, the evidence supports this hypothesis. \*he’s prone to parking quite far from the kerb, but I don’t think this is on religious grounds. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/105 "2016-01-19T15:48:46Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > OK. > > This site [here](http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shootings/2015) lists 331 mass shootings in the US in 2015, with a total of 367 deaths. > > I don’t think 166 people were killed by muslim terrorists in the US last year, so please could you provide a cite. Apologies, this should of course have been 184 killed. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/106 "2016-01-19T15:50:29Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I think there is something of a culture of fear now in the US, where politicians and news agencies have a lot to gain from perpetuating this idea that America is under siege. > > Nevertheless, I think any country in the US’ position would have a fear of terrorism, and it’s not necessarily xenophobia. Because: > > 1. 9/11 happened. I know 15 years later we sometimes get tired of mentions of it, but it was a pretty terrifying event and showed just how real shit can get. > > 2. Fears are instinctive and don’t necessarily correlate well with probabilities. > If it was on the news that guys in my area were randomly stabbing people, I might find that pretty scary, even if the chance of me being stabbed is far less than the chance of some drunk driver knocking me over on the sidewalk. Or indeed the chance that I just have a heart attack out of the blue :eek: What you are describing is the affect heuristic. OP already mentioned the availability heuristic, which is its close cousin. The human mind gives greater weight to threats that are perceived as terrifying and emotionally wrenching. DNI Clapper, for instance, actually rated the cyber threat higher than the terror threat, although most people might disagree because the cyber threat is practically invisible. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/107 "2016-01-19T15:53:42Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > That number is a result of a new, politically motivated, definitions intended to portray gun violence as an ever increasing threat. Would you say that non-terrorist gun violence is more or less of a threat to you than other gun violence. Could you please give a rationale for your answer. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/108 "2016-01-19T15:55:21Z")
Actually, I’m kind of curious. Does anyone have a good cite for how many islamist terrorist deaths there were in the US last year? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/109 "2016-01-19T16:23:51Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > … > Though I also think that the conservative personality type is more fearful of things foreign than liberals. If that’s so, then a given country’s proportions of liberals and conservatives would affect things. You suggest in your OP that fear of foreigners is hard-wired. Does the same apply to a conservative vs liberal mindset? ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/110 "2016-01-19T16:33:22Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > OK. > > This site [here](http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shootings/2015) lists 331 mass shootings in the US in 2015, with a total of 367 deaths. > > I don’t think 166 people were killed by muslim terrorists in the US last year, so please could you provide a cite. And [this site](http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/08/what-is-a-mass-shooting) says there were 62 in the last 30 years. I suggest we try to agree on what a mass shooting truly is. Their criteria: > [@](#): > > We were focused on the question of how many times Aurora-like events had actually happened. We honed our criteria accordingly: > > The attack must have occurred essentially in a single incident, in a public place; > > We excluded crimes of armed robbery, gang violence, or domestic violence in a home, focusing on cases in which the motive appeared to be indiscriminate mass murder; > > The killer, in accordance with the FBI criterion, had to have taken the lives of at least four people. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/111 "2016-01-19T16:35:35Z")
I thought it was three or more people, combination of death/injuries? Got enough mass for me. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/112 "2016-01-19T16:44:40Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > What you are describing is the affect heuristic. OP already mentioned the availability heuristic, which is its close cousin. The human mind gives greater weight to threats that are perceived as terrifying and emotionally wrenching. DNI Clapper, for instance, actually rated the cyber threat higher than the terror threat, although most people might disagree because the cyber threat is practically invisible. Yes agreed. But what I would say to posters like **Richard Parker** in this thread, is this: Fear is an emotion. If being afraid of terrorist threats, or spree shootings, among other things, is irrational, what’s the rational way for fear to work? Should I be afraid of roads, since I’m much more likely to be killed by a bad or drunk driver than a terrorist…but how would that fear work given that I live in one of the world’s densest cities and can hear cars honking even as I type this? Should I be afraid every day of heart disease? The next pandemic? My GF is soon to fly from an airport that got a terrorism alert. She’s somewhat nervous and will probably be extra alert. Is that irrational? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/113 "2016-01-19T16:48:11Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > And [this site](http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/08/what-is-a-mass-shooting) says there were 62 in the last 30 years. I suggest we try to agree on what a mass shooting truly is. > > Their criteria: This seems a definition of mass killings, not mass shootings. It specifically excluded a guy who opened up on a church service with a shotgun because he didn’t kill enough people; though he wounded 7, he only killed 2. I’d say this definition is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/114 "2016-01-19T16:51:02Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > And [this site](http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/08/what-is-a-mass-shooting) says there were 62 in the last 30 years. I suggest we try to agree on what a mass shooting truly is. > > Their criteria: So if I shoot 4 people but only wound them, you don’t consider it to be a mass shooting? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/115 "2016-01-19T17:00:05Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I think this is the crux of the problem. People are putting out strawman arguments on both sides. The crux of the issue is this; there is an undoubted problem within sections of the Muslim community(we can take it as given that conservatives tend to exaggerate the problems, liberals tend to minimise them). Are Muslims as a whole reformable? I don’t think anyone knows the answer for sure. It all depends upon which ideology Muslim immigrants(and future generations) embrace: radical Islam or Western liberalism? The answer to that question no-one yet knows. I tend to come down on the conservative side, that we in the West probably shouldn’t import such a vast potential problem. Yet you hand wave away the real threat from christian extremists while condemning the 60% of the population you don’t relate to. This argument is pretty much the definition of xenophobia. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/116 "2016-01-19T17:15:11Z")
If the OP is just saying xenophobia is one factor, then it’s hard to argue with but also no big deal. Xenophobia is part of human nature and always will be. But if it’s insisting that it’s “mostly” irrational xenophobia, then that’s hard to assess. There are a lot of other factors, as others have noted in this thread, and it’s hard to sort out one factor from the others. (I don’t know on what basis the OP thinks he has done so.) One in particular has been alluded to but could use more focus IMO, is that Islamic radicals have been steadily growing in power and radicalism over the past couple of decades, and it’s a big mistake to predict what the future likelihood of terrorism is based on prior history. > [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I’m interested in the responses that acknowledge the irrationality but find it to be no big deal. > > Would you feel the same way if our national politics were focused on (and spending trillions on) preventing shark attacks or asteroid strikes? This seems illogical, in making the unfounded assumption that the national politics and spending were based on the irrational fears expressed in this Gallup poll. It’s more likely that the national politics and spending are based on the fact that one reason terrorism is as low as it is (and fears of it correspondingly irrational) is the very fact that national politics and spending are as focused on it as they are. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/117 "2016-01-19T18:04:03Z")
I am persuaded by some of the arguments in the thread that xenophobia plays less of a role than I thought (or at least that inference is less warranted). In particular, I think it put too much weight on the different treatment of mass shootings, which seemed closely analogous but may in fact be too frequent to be a good comparator. If it is true that most of these poll respondents say they are very fearful of terrorism because of an anticipated exponential increase, then I’m not sure I wouldn’t still call that irrational–though obviously it is closer to reason-based than categorical fear of foreigners. I don’t think that’s an evidence-based fear, but it may be that reasonable people could disagree about it. I would be curious to know if that is in fact what people are thinking when they give those answers, which is part of why I’m interesting in questioning posters willing to admit that they are among the very fearful. ---
**Author:** ![botsgotme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@botsgotme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/botsgotme)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/118 "2016-01-19T20:44:57Z")
What if your Muslim neighbor is a wahabist hate spewing nut who prays for the destruction of Israel and the USA? Is there any reason to believe that such a person is NOT a danger to you? Why do we even allow such people to enter the USA? What value to any society would such a person be? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/119 "2016-01-19T21:12:42Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I am persuaded by some of the arguments in the thread that xenophobia plays less of a role than I thought (or at least that inference is less warranted). In particular, I think it put too much weight on the different treatment of mass shootings, which seemed closely analogous but may in fact be too frequent to be a good comparator. > > If it is true that most of these poll respondents say they are very fearful of terrorism because of an anticipated exponential increase, then I’m not sure I wouldn’t still call that irrational–though obviously it is closer to reason-based than categorical fear of foreigners. I don’t think that’s an evidence-based fear, but it may be that reasonable people could disagree about it. I would be curious to know if that is in fact what people are thinking when they give those answers, which is part of why I’m interesting in questioning posters willing to admit that they are among the very fearful. Well, the Op was quoting and adding both “very” and "somewhat"_worried_ (not “fearful”) “51% of US adults are very or somewhat worried” . I dont think “somewhat” worried is at all irrational. I would put myself in the “not too worried” category, but I think the “Not at all” are as wrong as the “Very”. Nor did the poll say “Compared to drunk driving or …”. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/120 "2016-01-20T05:49:49Z")
> [@botsgotme](#): > > What if… …monkeys fly out of my ass? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499.md?page=7)