# America's fear of terrorism is mostly irrational xenophobia **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 18, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499 "2016-01-18T14:30:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/121 "2016-01-20T06:38:24Z")
It is important to call out that a large portion of the lobbying and media quotes around this issue have been pushed for and provided by known white supremacists and eugenicists. John Tanton is the equivalent of the Koch brothers in this area. [ > [@](#): > > I’ve come to the point of view that for European-American society and culture to persist requires a European-American majority, and a clear one at that. ]([https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/john-tanton](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/john-tanton)) [Here is an example of them pushing for legislation in Oregon.](http://www.adl.org/civil-rights/immigration/c/activists-with-extremist-ties.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/) While their beliefs may not be held by a lot of Americans that share their islomphobic views they are fanning the flames and promoting the message with great effect. If you look at his organizations core tenants you will see a striking similarity to statements from xenophobic political figures like Trump From the Federation for American Immigration Reform (No link to avoid helping their SEO rank) > [@](#): > > 7 Principles of True Comprehensive Immigration Reform: > > 1. End Illegal Immigration > 2. No Amnesty or Mass Guest-Worker Program > 3. Protect Wages and Standards of Living > 4. Major Upgrade in Interior Enforcement, Led by Strong Employers Penalties > 5. Stop Special Interest Asylum Abuse > 6. An Immigration Time Out > 7. Equal Under the Law I have seen no arguments in this thread from those advocating these xenophobic type polices that does not play this known racist organizations goals and most arguments seem to be parroting their brand prepackaged fear. I am not calling anyone on here a racist but I do wonder if people understand the source of the propaganda that they have been feed. Also note that he has been a leader in the Sierra Club and other groups which are not conservative. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/122 "2016-01-20T19:18:12Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > It is important to call out that a large portion of the lobbying and media quotes around this issue have been pushed for and provided by known white supremacists and eugenicists. > . What issue?\*\* Fear of being blown up or shot down for a crazy religious/political reason? \*\* Worries over terrorism are reasonable, even if perhaps blown out of proportion. I dunno why you think you have to embark on a Argumentum ad hominem for something that is not the main issue, and versus someone who has not even been quoted. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/123 "2016-01-20T21:26:56Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > So if I shoot 4 people but only wound them, you don’t consider it to be a mass shooting? According to the quoted section of post 110 - \*Their criteria: Quote: We were focused on the question of how many times Aurora-like events had actually happened. We honed our criteria accordingly: The attack must have occurred essentially in a single incident, in a public place; We excluded crimes of armed robbery, gang violence, or domestic violence in a home, focusing on cases in which the motive appeared to be indiscriminate mass murder; The killer, in accordance with the FBI criterion, had to have taken the lives of at least four people.\* ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/124 "2016-01-20T21:34:18Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > According to the quoted section of post 110 - > > \*Their criteria: > > Quote: > We were focused on the question of how many times Aurora-like events had actually happened. We honed our criteria accordingly: > > The attack must have occurred essentially in a single incident, in a public place; > > We excluded crimes of armed robbery, gang violence, or domestic violence in a home, focusing on cases in which the motive appeared to be indiscriminate mass murder; > > The killer, in accordance with the FBI criterion, had to have taken the lives of at least four people.\* Ah, so then xenophobia can still be fed due to non-islamic terrorists being worse at their jobs? IMHO this is just a way to stack the numbers in a way that ignores the motivations behind terrorism which is to cause terror for political reasons. As an example the fact that Larry McQuilliams was a bad shot doesn’t change that fact. Does the Phineas Priesthood movement need to organize for Trump to call for action against them? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/125 "2016-01-20T21:48:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What issue?\*\* Fear of being blown up or shot down for a crazy religious/political reason? \*\* > > Worries over terrorism are reasonable, even if perhaps blown out of proportion. > > I dunno why you think you have to embark on a Argumentum ad hominem for something that is not the main issue, and versus someone who has not even been quoted. They are not reasonable when they result in policy that greatly outweighs their risk. Especially when those “Worries over terrorism” are used to justify racist polices that result in great suffering. It is not an ad hominem attack, it is the crux of the issue. Are your “Worries over terrorism” as great with your flag flying Christian neighbor? Or are they reserved for people who are muslim? Hell most people should be more afraid of their internet connection if they worried about lives as a low cardio fitness is way more likely to kill them. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/126 "2016-01-20T22:04:51Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > They are not reasonable when they result in policy that greatly outweighs their risk. Especially when those “Worries over terrorism” are used to justify racist polices that result in great suffering. It is not an ad hominem attack, it is the crux of the issue… Then your issue is with those\* polices\*, not the _worries_. People are justifiably worried about being killed. It is 100% an _ad hominem_ attack, since you’re attacking the person behind the idea, not the idea itself. In fact, no one has quoted them anyway, so it’s a Poisoning the Well, too. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/127 "2016-01-20T22:11:51Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > According to the quoted section of post 110 - > > \*Their criteria: > > Quote: > We were focused on the question of how many times Aurora-like events had actually happened. We honed our criteria accordingly: > > The attack must have occurred essentially in a single incident, in a public place; > > We excluded crimes of armed robbery, gang violence, or domestic violence in a home, focusing on cases in which the motive appeared to be indiscriminate mass murder; > > The killer, in accordance with the FBI criterion, had to have taken the lives of at least four people.\* Except that criterion is “an FBI crime classification report from 2005 identifies an individual as a mass murderer if he kills four or more people in a single incident (not including himself), typically in a single location” And I thought we were talking about mass shootings, not mass murders? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/128 "2016-01-21T01:57:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Then your issue is with those\* polices\*, not the _worries_. People are justifiably worried about being killed. > > It is 100% an _ad hominem_ attack, since you’re attacking the person behind the idea, not the idea itself. In fact, no one has quoted them anyway, so it’s a Poisoning the Well, too. Are they justified in being worried about their white neighbors, or are you ignoring what the hell xenophobia is, I am attacking their actions too. xenophobia = bigotry, there is no way to address it without referencing the people whom are xenophobic, which in this case almost purely means islomophobic. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/129 "2016-01-21T05:18:26Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Except that criterion is “an FBI crime classification report from 2005 identifies an individual as a mass murderer if he kills four or more people in a single incident (not including himself), typically in a single location” > > And I thought we were talking about mass shootings, not mass murders? The term “mass shootings” excludes bombers and vehicular murderers. Maybe it needs to be decided which term(s) and what criteria should be argued? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/130 "2016-01-21T05:30:46Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Ah, so then xenophobia can still be fed due to non-islamic terrorists being worse at their jobs? > > IMHO this is just a way to stack the numbers in a way that ignores the motivations behind terrorism which is to cause terror for political reasons. As an example the fact that Larry McQuilliams was a bad shot doesn’t change that fact. > > Does the Phineas Priesthood movement need to organize for Trump to call for action against them? Is xenophobia wrong when it’s a direct result of a group of individuals who repeatedly claim that they and their followers will murder you? I’ve often wondered how many radical, fanatical, Muslim/ISIS plots were thwarted by LE agencies BEFORE any innocent victims were actually injured, maimed, or murdered? Shouldn’t they receive points for making the effort? Aren’t the 4 members of the Phineas Priesthood still in prison? Do you think Obama would pardon them if Trump, or Hillary, asked nicely? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/131 "2016-01-21T14:17:02Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The term “mass shootings” excludes bombers and vehicular murderers. Maybe it needs to be decided which term(s) and what criteria should be argued? 😕 I’m still looking for a decent listing of US terrorist attacks in 2015. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/132 "2016-01-21T15:45:31Z")
If the goal of terrorism is to cause fear in a Peoples, then the terrorists are winning … having cleverly taken advantage of pre-existing xenophobia. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/133 "2016-01-21T16:17:11Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Is xenophobia wrong when it’s a direct result of a group of individuals who repeatedly claim that they and their followers will murder you? > > I’ve often wondered how many radical, fanatical, Muslim/ISIS plots were thwarted by LE agencies BEFORE any innocent victims were actually injured, maimed, or murdered? Shouldn’t they receive points for making the effort? > > Aren’t the 4 members of the Phineas Priesthood still in prison? Do you think Obama would pardon them if Trump, or Hillary, asked nicely? Please provide a cite that 1.6 billion people of the world want to kill you, even heck 5% or 80,000,000 are directly calling for your death. Compared to the actions of the _innocent_ xenophobic americans: [http://fox2now.com/2015/12/07/suspect-in-custody-for-threatening-local-mosque/](http://fox2now.com/2015/12/07/suspect-in-custody-for-threatening-local-mosque/) > **[Enraged woman attacks Muslims praying in California park: ‘Allah is Satan and...](https://www.rawstory.com/2015/12/enraged-woman-attacks-muslims-praying-in-california-park-allah-is-satan-and-you-are-all-murderers/)** > > A woman hurled anti-Islam slurs and then hot coffee at a group of Muslims after she saw them praying in a California park.Rasheed Albeshari said he and some friends had just finished their prayers Sunday afternoon at Lake Chabot in Alameda County... > **[New Jersey Mosque Targeted With Hate Mail, Phone Threats](https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/jersey-city-mosque-hate-mail-phone-threats/2025035/)** > > A New Jersey mosque has been receiving hate messages in the mail and on the phone, leaving worshipers there worried for their safety. > **[Hate-crime charge possible after passenger punches ride-share driver and...](https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/hate-crime-charge-possible-after-passenger-punches-ride-share-driver-and-accuses-him-of-terrorism-police-say)** > > Articles and videos about Hate-crime charge possible after passenger punches ride-share driver and accuses him of terrorism, police say on FOX 13 Seattle. > **[EXCLUSIVE: Video shows customer hit worker, break glass in NYC restaurant as...](https://www.nydailynews.com/2015/12/10/exclusive-video-shows-customer-hit-worker-break-glass-in-nyc-restaurant-as-he-rails-against-muslims-man-kicks-woman-calls-her-trash-in-separate-crime/)** > > A customer at a Herald Square restaurant burst into an anti-Muslim tirade, slapping one worker than busting glass partitions with a chair while a Muslim woman in Brooklyn was kicked by a man who ca… [http://www.wtsp.com/story/news/local/2015/12/11/two-muslim-women-attacked-in-tampa/77137026/](http://www.wtsp.com/story/news/local/2015/12/11/two-muslim-women-attacked-in-tampa/77137026/) [http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/texas-mosque-draws-protest-counter-protest-demonstrations-35736805](http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/texas-mosque-draws-protest-counter-protest-demonstrations-35736805) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/134 "2016-01-21T17:58:28Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Please provide a cite that 1.6 billion people of the world want to kill you, even heck 5% or 80,000,000 are directly calling for your death. (post shortened) Muslims have a HUGE public relations problem. The bloody actions and violent words of ISIS, Al Qaeda, those fun-loving Palestinians, and even the Nazi-Muslim divisions of WWII can have an affect on how people view Muslims today. You provided a list of how people have _responded_ to the repeated Muslim threats and attacks against the rest of the world. The current threats coming from groups of individual Muslims aren’t targeting anyone specifically. Anyone in the West is a target. Anyone in Europe is a target. Anyone in the U.S.A. is a target. Anyone in Israel is a target. Anyone in the Middle East is a target. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/135 "2016-01-21T21:07:08Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Muslims have a HUGE public relations problem. The bloody actions and violent words of **ISIS, Al Qaeda, those fun-loving Palestinians** , and even the Nazi-Muslim divisions of WWII can have an affect on how people view Muslims today. > > You provided a list of how people have _responded_ to the repeated Muslim threats and attacks against the rest of the world. The current threats coming from groups of individual Muslims aren’t targeting anyone specifically. Anyone in the West is a target. Anyone in Europe is a target. Anyone in the U.S.A. is a target. Anyone in Israel is a target. Anyone in the Middle East is a target. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Well the “ISIS, Al Qaeda, those fun-loving Palestinians” and the aryan nations, and almost all other domestic terrorists are almost exclusively Caucasian. Why is there no call to stop all Caucasian immigration or violent attacks against them…oh ya because the bigotry against people who happen to be muslim. The ONLY reason for this is because they happen to be one revision newer on a common thread of abrahamic religion. This xenophobia is not rational it is purely based in a bigoted categorization of individuals similar to the hate of other groups which will dilute the white european historical majority in this country. We do not see the same response to massive terrorist attacks from white christians despite the reality that those plots and attacks are just as common. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/136 "2016-01-22T12:31:52Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Muslims have a HUGE public relations problem. The bloody actions and violent words of ISIS, Al Qaeda, those fun-loving Palestinians, and even the Nazi-Muslim divisions of WWII can have an affect on how people view Muslims today. … . Then of course those hudnreds of Nazi chrisitians divisions must effect how people view the christians today… and too those fun loving Christian palestinian terrorists also must effect how we view the Christians. The crime of Groupe identity. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/137 "2016-01-22T17:52:47Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > So if I shoot 4 people but only wound them, you don’t consider it to be a mass shooting? Do you consider every shooting terrorism? That is the subject of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/138 "2016-01-22T18:08:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You are still evading the question :Why is a fear of dying a horrible flaming death “irrational”? Just because there’s something else that kills more people? You must never have taken drivers ed, since when I did we watched Signal 30, showing horrible flaming deaths in cars. Which I’d expect are far more frequent than horrible flaming deaths in airplanes. Not to mention that the guy controlling your airplane is a highly trained veteran with plane maintenance done by other highly trained people, while even if you are a good driver you have to worry about drunk teenagers driving on Kojaks. So, fearing flying more than driving is irrational. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/139 "2016-01-22T18:51:30Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > Do you consider every shooting terrorism? That is the subject of this thread. > [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > As it stands, more than half of **the small number of murders committed during mass shootings** last year were by Jihadist attackers. Context. Important stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499/140 "2016-01-22T18:58:59Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Muslims have a HUGE public relations problem. The bloody actions and violent words of ISIS, Al Qaeda, those fun-loving Palestinians, and even the Nazi-Muslim divisions of WWII can have an affect on how people view Muslims today. In other words, you agree with the OP? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-fear-of-terrorism-is-mostly-irrational-xenophobia/743499.md?page=8)