# America's great economic "boom" exposed for what it was: the great American fraud **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 31, 2020, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772 "2020-03-31T23:22:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/61 "2020-04-02T22:02:39Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > **What, AGAIN???!!!???** I’ve been planning to start collecting my checks in September of 2022 for some time. Now I’ll have to wait until March, 2023? > > F-u-u-u-u-u-c-c-c-ck. At this rate, they’re going to keep pushing SS back until your collection day is when you’re wheezing on your deathbed. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/62 "2020-04-02T22:59:55Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If we want to blame Trump for allowing the virus to spread in America, that’s a whole different story (and I agree, he deserves blame.) But this coronavirus requires a shutdown/quarantine which would have greatly damaged \*\*\*any \*\*\*president’s economy had it happened in their time - Obama’s, Bush’s, or Clinton’s. And which of those last three are anti-science, allergic to taking advice from qualified people, and would have lied straight through on a daily, if not hourly, basis about the crisis? The issue here is the extent that the clown in the White House has enabled this virus to spread in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/63 "2020-04-03T06:18:42Z")
Yeah, the Republicans have ridden their “Government \*\*is \*\*the problem” rhetoric so successfully that their politicians all ended up being **unable** to govern, all they know how to do is follow the will of their masters. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/64 "2020-04-03T07:50:08Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > At this rate, they’re going to keep pushing SS back until your collection day is \*\*when you’re wheezing on your deathbed. \*\* :eek: Which is a very unfortunate choice of words in the present circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/65 "2020-04-03T14:30:27Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Has any thought been given to the possibility that **a supply of such jobs is indispensable** to a sustainable first-world economy? If you ate literally asking if we need a bunch of good paying manufacturing jobs people without high school educations can get, that’s not happening. 85% of Americans graduate from high school. It used to be that graduating from high school was an accomplishment of sorts, and millions of people who did not graduate were competent, smart adults who were reliable employees. That is far less true now; dropping out doesn’t guarantee someone is a doofus, but it’s more of a bad sign than it used to be. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/66 "2020-04-03T16:33:47Z")
An economy which can’t provide $15/hour jobs and basic healthcare just really isn’t worth saving, imho. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/67 "2020-04-03T17:45:30Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > An economy which can’t provide $15/hour jobs and basic healthcare just really isn’t worth saving, imho. People with investments would beg to disagree. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/68 "2020-04-03T18:01:37Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > People with investments would beg to disagree. > > CMC fnord! Of course they would. That’s like someone saying “a slave based economy isn’t worth saving!” and being surprised when the plantation owners disagreed. Edit: and I say that as a homeowner with investments who is doing just fine. But the situation isnt fine for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/69 "2020-04-03T18:06:45Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Of course they would. That’s like someone saying “a slave based economy isn’t worth saving!” and being surprised when the plantation owners disagreed. {…} To be fair, asahi doesn’t own any plantations that we know of, he just profits from the slave labor. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/70 "2020-04-03T20:31:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think xenophon’s point was that we often focus too much on one part of the overall economy - the financial market - and forget about the rest of the economy. Seen from the outside, isn’t that exactly what the USA has done for years? Decades even? The real wealth of a country is not created or expressed in skillful juggling of the financial markets. To state the blindingly obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/71 "2020-04-04T02:46:43Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > **What, AGAIN???!!!???** I’ve been planning to start collecting my checks in September of 2022 for some time. Now I’ll have to wait until March, 2023? > > F-u-u-u-u-u-c-c-c-ck. It usually gets pushed out so that people within 5 years of retirement don’t have their plans disrupted and then you add like a month for every year after that until you get the 6 months. So you don’t get pushed out 6 months until like 10 years later. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/72 "2020-04-04T02:56:21Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If we want to blame Trump for allowing the virus to spread in America, that’s a whole different story (and I agree, he deserves blame.) But this coronavirus requires a shutdown/quarantine which would have greatly damaged \*\*\*any \*\*\*president’s economy had it happened in their time - Obama’s, Bush’s, or Clinton’s. It didn’t require a shutdown/quarantine. Not at first. It only required it because we left things so late that it was the only option left on the table. -Korea started using masks (not PPE, just to prevent sick people from infecting others) and social distancing in January. -They distributed the plans for test kits to companies and basically conscripted them to manufacture test kits in February -They started testing people entering and leaving the country (you were tested at least 3 times when leaving and at least twice when arriving. -They closed schools -They started looking at the GPS history of people who got infected to publicize where these people had been so people would come in to be tested -Then they started tracking EVERYONE’S GPS to find anyone that might have had contact with a sick person and tested them -Everyone kept going to work and their unemployment rate actually dropped (in part because people had to stay home with their kids and in part because all this testing and tracking people down and extra deliveries,etc. meant a lot more people working. -Their unemployment rate is at 3.3%, down from 4% last month. They seem to have gotten through this and can probably keep things under control just by continuing to do these things (school is out until they have a vaccine). 165 people have died from coronavirus in Korea. They will have a normal looking recession with a normal looking recovery. Remember this when we are swimming in 20%+ unemployment and hundreds of thousands dead. This was avoidable and other presidents would have done a better job. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/73 "2020-04-04T02:59:08Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > An economy which can’t provide $15/hour jobs and basic healthcare just really isn’t worth saving, imho. Wow what an incredibly privileged thing to say. Welcome to Thunderdome. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/74 "2020-04-04T03:02:19Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Of course they would. That’s like someone saying “a slave based economy isn’t worth saving!” and being surprised when the plantation owners disagreed. > > Edit: and I say that as a homeowner with investments who is doing just fine. But the situation isnt fine for everyone. So making less than $15/hour plus health care for a job that requires no skills is like being a slave? How much do you think you can charge for a big mac and still have people buying big macs? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/75 "2020-04-04T03:26:33Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Wow what an incredibly privileged thing to say. > > Welcome to Thunderdome. I’ll go back to the fact that probably 40% of this country can’t handle being unemployed more than a month. The social safety net here is insufficient to prevent the extreme effects of poverty. Once in poverty, once unemployed for any extended period of time, it’s crippling. This is becoming more and more true in other economies tethered to the United States, but it’s a striking phenomenon here. It doesn’t matter if someone’s income rises from $11 per hour to $16 hour if the rents are doubling and tripling and you can’t afford a trip to the hospital. Again, DA, take a look at the income and wealth inequality here and now in 2020, and compare it to the 1910s and 20s. You know what happened in the late 20s and early 30s. The invisible hand doesn’t spread prosperity when 1-2% of all people how half of all income gets spent ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/76 "2020-04-04T07:19:11Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > To be fair, asahi doesn’t own any plantations that we know of, he just profits from the slave labor. > > CMC fnord! Is **asahi** really a hedge fund manager? And even if he is, why does that make his opinion worthless? I’d argue that experience makes him better informed. Bill and Melinda Gates are rich; are their views therefore also worthless? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/77 "2020-04-04T13:30:48Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Is **asahi** really a hedge fund manager? And even if he is, why does that make his opinion worthless? I’d argue that experience makes him better informed. Bill and Melinda Gates are rich; are their views therefore also worthless? We all profit from slave labor, but we shouldn’t. We need a new system. Maybe COVID-19 will pave the way for one. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/78 "2020-04-04T14:26:30Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > {…} And even if he is, why does that make his opinion worthless? I’d argue that experience makes him better informed. Bill and Melinda Gates are rich; are their views therefore also worthless? This is what makes asahi, and his opinion worthless, > [@The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/42195): > > {…} I want COVID-19 to be bad. A total fucking disaster. I want the economy and the health system to collapse. I wish it didn’t have to come to this, but it does. {…} Get back to me when you find a similar quote from Bill Gates wishing death and destruction on the people he claims to be championing. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/79 "2020-04-04T14:32:00Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > This is what makes asahi, and his opinion worthless,Get back to me when you find a similar quote from Bill Gates wishing death and destruction on the people he claims to be championing. > > CMC fnord! Bill Gates is part of the problem. He makes himself look good by donating billions, and in doing so he uses his ‘charity’ (a lot of which is overseas and not spent on improving the standards of living here in the US, btw) as propaganda that the charity of the billionaire is superior to a system that actually promotes socioeconomic parity. Fuck Bill Gates. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/80 "2020-04-04T14:58:20Z")
These charts show how the Great Recession massacred the bottom 50% of wealth holders in this country. I guaran-damn-tee you that many of these people were never again counted again in the recovery; they just disappeared. Some did, but many others died, ended up in prison, ended up under a bridge. Maybe some were able to get by on SS. But what is the average person going to be able to get have when they’re left with 30% of the wealth they used to have? [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Wealth_inequality_panel_-_v1.png/1280px-Wealth_inequality_panel_-_v1.png) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Wealth_inequality_panel_-_v1.png/1280px-Wealth_inequality_panel_-_v1.png) And that raises the obligatory question: if this is what a Great Recession and 11% unemployment does to people…what the fuck do you think is going to happen when 30-50% of the country is going to be unemployed at some point over the next 6 months? What’s tragic is, this is fixable. All we need is a system that changes this graph: [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Productivity_and_Real_Median_Family_Income_Growth_in_the_United_States.png?1586011313850) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Productivity_and_Real_Median_Family_Income_Growth_in_the_United_States.png?1586011313850) Notice how much higher wages could be if we tied them to productivity. But we don’t do that because the billionaire class uses propaganda to brainwash idiots (like the Crow) into believing that billionaire charity absolves them of their unforgivable sins. But it doesn’t. We can change the system by increasing minimum wages and by changing the tax code - and then reinvesting that money into putting people back to work by fixing our terrible infrastructure, by providing education and training, by providing housing, and by investing money into regulating business and our corrupt elections and financial systems. So I really don’t give a fuck whether Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates donates half their goddamn wealth. Quit being a sucker for that kind of bullshit propaganda. They’re donating a little now so that they can protect their corrupt system that perpetuates inequality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772.md?page=5)