# America's great economic "boom" exposed for what it was: the great American fraud **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 31, 2020, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772 "2020-03-31T23:22:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/81 "2020-04-04T15:49:16Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > {…} But we don’t do that because the billionaire class uses propaganda to brainwash idiots (like the Crow) into believing that billionaire charity absolves them of their unforgivable sins. But it doesn’t. {…} Not being on the side of someone that’s actively cheer-leading for my death, that would be you, doesn’t requiring ‘brainwashing’. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/82 "2020-04-04T18:09:15Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Not being on the side of someone that’s actively cheer-leading for my death, that would be you, doesn’t requiring ‘brainwashing’. > > CMC fnord! Yes, but they’re the ones putting your health and safety in greater danger. I’m not. And there’s your difference. I get that you don’t like my rhetoric - hell I don’t like what I’m writing either. But we’re faced with the ugly truth, which is that America is a country with a terrible value system of hyper-consumption over everything else, and this has a price. American capitalism is gangster capitalism, rewarding muggers and punishing victims for being victims. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/83 "2020-04-04T19:25:08Z")
**Asahi** , I’d suggest that one big reason productivity is running away from wages in your chart is because more and more production is automated. That’s the new slave economy: robots. Today a wealthy industrialist can own an army of them, which drives down the demand for labor, which drives down wages. I am not sure what the answer to that is. Maybe being angry with the robots will help, who knows? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/84 "2020-04-04T19:40:48Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > **Asahi** , I’d suggest that one big reason productivity is running away from wages in your chart is because more and more production is automated. That’s the new slave economy: robots. Today a wealthy industrialist can own an army of them, which drives down the demand for labor, which drives down wages. > > **I am not sure what the answer to that is.** Maybe being angry with the robots will help, who knows? The redistribution of wealth. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2020, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/85 "2020-04-05T20:44:02Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I’ll go back to the fact that probably 40% of this country can’t handle being unemployed more than a month. The social safety net here is insufficient to prevent the extreme effects of poverty. Once in poverty, once unemployed for any extended period of time, it’s crippling. This is becoming more and more true in other economies tethered to the United States, but it’s a striking phenomenon here. > > It doesn’t matter if someone’s income rises from $11 per hour to $16 hour if the rents are doubling and tripling and you can’t afford a trip to the hospital. Again, DA, take a look at the income and wealth inequality here and now in 2020, and compare it to the 1910s and 20s. You know what happened in the late 20s and early 30s. The invisible hand doesn’t spread prosperity when 1-2% of all people how half of all income gets spent I don’t disagree that the distribution of wealth between capital and labor has diverged. This has been the case since the 1980s. Wage levels used to increase at about the rate of productivity but now the lion’s share in increases in production from increased productivity goes to the owners of capital rather than the owners of labor. So in the past when people’s productivity doubled as a result of technology, the worker’s doubled their income and the owners of capital doubled their revenue. Now the workers see a 10% increase in their income and the owners of capital triple their revenue. The difference is not because we have more capitalism, it’s because we have undermined labor unions. There is a balance somewhere between unions destroying companies and companies raping labor. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2020, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/86 "2020-04-05T20:55:23Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Is **asahi** really a hedge fund manager? And even if he is, why does that make his opinion worthless? I’d argue that experience makes him better informed. Bill and Melinda Gates are rich; are their views therefore also worthless? He post a lot during market hours for a hedge fund manager. I guess it depends on the kind of hedge fund he runs but most hedge fund managers I know are incommunicado except for work during market hours. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2020, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/87 "2020-04-05T20:56:30Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Bill Gates is part of the problem. He makes himself look good by donating billions, and in doing so he uses his ‘charity’ (a lot of which is overseas and not spent on improving the standards of living here in the US, btw) as propaganda that the charity of the billionaire is superior to a system that actually promotes socioeconomic parity. > > Fuck Bill Gates. What system promotes socioeconomic parity better than capitalism? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2020, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/88 "2020-04-05T21:13:55Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > What system promotes socioeconomic parity better than capitalism? My comments aren’t an indictment of capitalism – capitalism is good. But there are different flavors of capitalism. A capitalism that allows the owners of capital to concentrate capital and its fruits is a system that is destined to fail – it makes the argument for state ownership of property, which as you and I both know is a flawed system in its own right. Capitalism’s inherent strength is that, with sufficient oversight and institutional checks and balances, it promotes crowdsourcing and competition of ideas. Its weakness is that capitalism doesn’t redistribute wealth, and without the redistribution of wealth, you simultaneously empower some owners of capital to use their existing wealth and power to destroy competition. Moreover, you inevitably destabilize the economic system by introducing a political crisis, which is what we saw in 1932 and what we’re probably about to see now. Mark my words: if we go 6-12 months into this crisis and do not fundamentally force a redistribution of wealth, we will experience the worst political crisis in our lifetimes and probably one of the worst in the history of this country. We’re absolutely 6-12 months away from witnessing this reality. You can bookmark this post if you like. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/89 "2020-04-07T14:43:27Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > My comments aren’t an indictment of capitalism – capitalism is good. But there are different flavors of capitalism. A capitalism that allows the owners of capital to concentrate capital and its fruits is a system that is destined to fail – it makes the argument for state ownership of property, which as you and I both know is a flawed system in its own right. Capitalism’s inherent strength is that, with sufficient oversight and institutional checks and balances, it promotes crowdsourcing and competition of ideas. Its weakness is that capitalism doesn’t redistribute wealth, and without the redistribution of wealth, you simultaneously empower some owners of capital to use their existing wealth and power to destroy competition. Moreover, you inevitably destabilize the economic system by introducing a political crisis, which is what we saw in 1932 and what we’re probably about to see now. Two things: (1) Right to work laws are an abomination of free market principles. Telling employers that they CANNOT enter into an enforceable agreement to only hire union workers. (2) Taxes (particularly estate taxes and capital gains taxes) have been a primary driver in redistribution. It’s a blunt instrument but generally speaking, noone’ “labor” is worth more than $1,000,000 (I don’t know what the actual number is). Anything you earn over that is the result of risk (we must reward risk but it has to be real risk, not “the government will bail you out” risk), capital (we don’t actually need obscenely wealthy individuals), etc. So in this sense, I agree with you. > [@](#): > > Mark my words: if we go 6-12 months into this crisis and do not fundamentally force a redistribution of wealth, we will experience the worst political crisis in our lifetimes and probably one of the worst in the history of this country. We’re absolutely 6-12 months away from witnessing this reality. You can bookmark this post if you like. We are on track to get this thing under control by the end of May. At that point we are entering the “dance” phase IF we have robust testing in place. We go back to work but we continue social distancing and masks, etc. and then keep testing and tighten up if we see spikes and loosen up when we can. We keep doing this dance until we get a vaccine. Things will be very tough and we might get to the pitchforks and torches stage but I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![MrMrmrmr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrmrmrmr/32/5828_2.png) [@MrMrmrmr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMrmrmr)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/90 "2021-03-01T21:59:24Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > What system promotes socioeconomic parity better than capitalism? > > Mark my words: if we go 6-12 months into this crisis and do not fundamentally force a redistribution of wealth, we will experience the worst political crisis in our lifetimes and probably one of the worst in the history of this country. We’re absolutely 6-12 months away from witnessing this reality. You can bookmark this post if you like. We are way past the six month mark, and approaching the 12 month point. I trust the booming Trump stock market has led to your portfolio recovering.I know mine has. It is Trumps’ stock market because I have read here that the low unemployment at the beginning of Trumps term was due to Obama, as Trumps’ policies had not taken effect. Clearly we must assign the same idea to the early part of this administration. We had a mostly peaceful transfer of power, and now BuyDem can start working his magic. “Vote for me and you will get a $2000 check immediately”. That was a lie. Has there ever been a more blatant effort to buy votes before? No more riots, two vaccines’ rolled out, and you have not been able to send out government goons to take my millions. Seems you suck at predicting the future. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/91 "2021-03-01T22:40:13Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > But I’m basically pointing out what I tried to point out in econ threads over the last few months before the crisis, which is that America’s “growth” was a sham. It wasn’t a sham for the oligarchs that the policies were supposed to serve. The rest of Trump’s supporters, the ones who got screwed by the economy, don’t care because white supremacy, not the economy, is their main _schtick_. And many others don’t care because they’re dead. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/92 "2021-03-01T22:45:07Z")
> [@MrMrmrmr](#): > > “Vote for me and you will get a $2000 check immediately”. That was a lie. A lie from whom? Can you quote who made that lie? ETA: I guess Biden did make that promise. I don’t think that was a lie, it was just something he was unable to fulfill. Unless you know for certain that he knew at the time it couldn’t happen, you’re full of shit here as usual. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/93 "2021-03-01T22:47:01Z")
I don’t know what you guys are talking about. I didn’t post this thread - that was my cousin, Kirin, posing as Asahi. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/94 "2021-03-01T23:14:03Z")
This thread hasn’t aged too well in Asahi’s favor, but this… > [@MrMrmrmr](#): > > We had a mostly peaceful transfer of power, and now BuyDem can start working his magic. …is putting a good spin on things. The most recent transfer of power was the most violent we’ve had in American history since at least the civil war, maybe ever. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/95 "2021-03-01T23:23:19Z")
> [@MrMrmrmr](#): > > No more riots Whoa, whoa, whoa - I thought you guys said that libs were burning down cities right and left, that BLM and antifa basically set America on fire. Seems you guys suck at telling the truth. ---
**Author:** ![MrMrmrmr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrmrmrmr/32/5828_2.png) [@MrMrmrmr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMrmrmr)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/96 "2021-03-02T00:18:32Z")
Key word-were. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/97 "2021-03-02T13:21:10Z")
Resolved: New Yorkers are sharper than other Americans. They saw through Trump decades ago, which is part of the reason he only got 10% of the vote in his home county. But the rubes, the rubes, the rubes. Lol, the fucking rubes (like **MrDogshit**.) They’d lick the bunghole of Satan himself if he was whispering sweet little somethings about their sickening ideology. There is no fixing stupid, but here’s a hint **MrDogshit** : Trump inherited it, just like everything else. Is that really too hard to work out for yourself? ---
**Author:** ![MrMrmrmr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrmrmrmr/32/5828_2.png) [@MrMrmrmr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMrmrmr)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/98 "2021-03-02T15:33:55Z")
Does the money spend any less sweetly despite the source? ---
**Author:** ![MrMrmrmr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrmrmrmr/32/5828_2.png) [@MrMrmrmr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMrmrmr)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/99 "2021-03-02T16:58:52Z")
I have read that Trump could have more money if he would have just invested in an S&P fund. The 500 companies are run by people of the highest business acumen. Since he did almost as well, it follows that Trump has a high degree of acumen also. 2017 NYC rate of violent crime is 35.7 per 1000, while my city has 13.1. Yes, that is some sharp thinking paying through the nose to live in a crime infested, noisy, smelly, crowded land of concrete. You should visit Norther Wisconsin, lush forests, peaceful serenity, the air smells different, and you can buy a lake house for $250,000 on 3-4 acres. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772/100 "2021-03-02T17:02:42Z")
> [@MrMrmrmr](#): > > “Vote for me and you will get a $2000 check immediately”. That was a lie. > > Has there ever been a more blatant effort to buy votes before? _Both_ major candidates in the 2020 election supported $2,000 stimulus checks. The delay was caused by congressional republicans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-great-economic-boom-exposed-for-what-it-was-the-great-american-fraud/850772.md?page=6)