# America's greatest taboo **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 21, 2002, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-greatest-taboo/128975 "2002-09-21T10:29:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-greatest-taboo/128975/81 "2002-09-24T14:02:11Z")
The Jews are behind everything that happens on this board. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Henry\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d78d45/32.png) [@Henry\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henry_B)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-greatest-taboo/128975/82 "2002-09-25T19:05:57Z")
It seem to be a taboo in US-politics to speak about USS Liberty. Read the story of Marlin Schneider, a former assistant Democratic leader of the Wisconsin State Assembly: > **[Refusal to Investigate Israel's 1967 Attack on USS Liberty a "No-Brainer":...](https://www.wrmea.org/002-january-february/refusal-to-investigate-israel-s-1967-attack-on-uss-liberty-a-no-brainer-one-legislator-s-story.html)** > > Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, January/February 2002, page 22 Special ReportRefusal to Investigate Israel’s 1967 Attack > [@](#): > > **Refusal to Investigate Israel’s 1967 Attack on USS Liberty a “No-Brainer”: One Legislator’s Story** > > By Marlin Schneider > > In the summer of 1998 I received an e-mail from a Wisconsin citizen in Oshkosh who asked all the members of the Wisconsin legislature to see if anyone would introduce a resolution requesting Congress to investigate an attack by the Israelis in 1967 on a ship called the USS Liberty. This seemed to me like a no-brainer that would be supported by Wisconsin veterans wanting to help another group of veterans denied their right to petition their government for a redress of grievances. I looked into the issue a bit and discovered that, indeed, the ship had been attacked, an apology offered, reparations paid—but that the veterans of that ship were still being denied a full-scale congressional investigation, which they believed necessary to finally bring closure to the issue. > > The Liberty veterans believed that the attack on their ship was deliberate and not friendly fire, and that it had been covered up by the United States Navy and the State Department for years because of fear of reprisals by influential people who would bring down any politician with the audacity even to ask questions about the attack. Some of the people who later talked to me both within and outside our own capitol warned me to beware of massive political contributions against me and even potential assassination. I laughed that off because I have never been anti-Israel and, in fact, the people who got me to run for office in the first place in 1970 were Jewish constituents whom I admired because in the 1950s they had taken on Sen. Joseph McCarthy right here in central Wisconsin. Moreover, one of my former assistants was the daughter of a rabbi incarcerated at Buchenwald who now works for a Jewish organization in New York City. I also thought that a lowly state legislator was too small a potato for anyone really to care much about. > > In my naivetĂ© I learned that the only “no-brainer” around here was me. The resolution was introduced in the 1999-2000 session and sent to our committee on Veterans and Military Affairs. It got a unanimous vote in committee after they heard testimony about the incident. Curiously, however, it suddenly got held up in the Rules Committee by the Republican majority leader. I had promised the people who had asked me to introduce the legislation that I would make a motion to pull the bill from the Rules Committee if the majority leader wouldn’t report it out. Little did I know the trouble this would cause me in the Democratic caucus. My Democratic colleagues became very angry with me for wanting to move this bill, and demanded that I not do so. > > In my then-30 years in the Wisconsin Assembly, this was the first time I had heard anyone ask another member to go back on his or her word. I refused. I made the motion on the floor in the spring 2000 session and was soundly defeated by both sides of the aisle. After the 2000 elections, in a secret Democratic caucus, I was sacked as assistant Democratic leader and removed from a leadership position because I had had the audacity not to back down earlier that year. Set free from the constraints of “leadership,” I introduced the resolution again in the current session. This time, however, I toned down the rhetoric of the resolution to try and satisfy its critics. > > **“I was (and am) considering leaving the Democratic Party over this issue.”** > > Alas, even that doesn’t satisfy them. They do not want this matter investigated. They called me an “anti-Semite” and a “racist.” I told them that I would not accept that line of bull, and the words we had in secret caucus were very harsh. In November, on the floor of the Assembly, after I was once again even more soundly defeated, I told them I was (and am) considering leaving the Democratic Party over this issue. I could not in good faith support a party which cannot see fit to support me. Even more importantly, however, neither the Democrats nor the Republicans can see fit to provide this group of veterans their just due in seeking their Constitutional right to petitioning their government for a redress of grievances. > > Amid all this rancor I had the most marvelous opportunity last summer to meet with five USS Liberty veterans in Grafton, Wisconsin, where a library is named in honor of the ship. I watched as men now in middle age still break down and cry over the events of 34 years ago. My colleagues told me that we should just forget this because it happened 34 years ago. I replied that I could not recall anyone saying that the Israelis should have just forgotten Adolph Eichmann because World War II had long since been over. To that I received no response. When I met with the survivors of the ship I told them that, if I had to go down, I could think of no better reason than to go down with the men of the USS Liberty. > > Interestingly, one of those killed on the Liberty was from Fond du Lac, Wisconsin. One of the boys killed on the USS Cole also was from Fond du Lac. Nobody said we shouldn’t have a full investigation of that terrorist act. On the day the Assembly took up a resolution on the Liberty we had taken up and passed a resolution on Puerto Rico and had a group of “former” Marines from Fond du Lac present the colors. We then passed a resolution honoring the members of our Assembly who also are serving or who have served in the U.S. Armed Forces. Such patriotism does not seem to extend to the veterans of the USS Liberty, however. > > It is very hard to deal with this issue because the press will not cover it. Even when I wrote to each and every major Wisconsin veterans organization, including the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars, I did not get even the courtesy of a response. From Wisconsin’s congressional delegation I either received State Department drivel or, mostly, no response at all. One member did express an interest and I intend to share The History Channel’s report on the Liberty with him. I received no response when I wrote to the previous Israeli government. When I wrote to Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura, who hosted a meeting of Liberty survivors, and to the majority leader of the Minnesota Senate I likewise was stonewalled, and am still awaiting a response. Maybe Jesse just doesn’t correspond with cheeseheads. > > I am very angry about this. These were American sailors. They are still loyal to their country. Their country is disloyal to them. History is replete with examples of cover-up and scapegoating by those in power in the United States government. Pearl Harbor, the USS Indianapolis, the USS Iowa, the USS Stark, the Tonkin Gulf Resolution, the USS Pueblo—all are examples of scapegoating or flat out cover-up. The USS Liberty is just the worst example. These men and their families deserve as much respect and honor and love as all others who have served our country. Their country—especially those who “serve” in the Congress of the United States—doesn’t have the guts to stand up for them. These sailors and intelligence officials deserve “the love and thanks of man and woman.” The summer soldiers and the phony sunshine patriots in legislative bodies from Madison to Washington deserve nothing but contempt for letting them down. About WRMEA (Washington Report on Middle East Affairs), You can find the following: > [@](#): > > Material from the printed version of the Washington Report, and from this web site, may be reprinted without charge as long as articles are not changed in any way and are credited to the author and the magazine. So I reprinted the whole story here. So is it taboo or not (to act in this case?) ---
**Author:** ![TheJackOfHearts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheJackOfHearts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheJackOfHearts)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-greatest-taboo/128975/83 "2002-09-25T19:47:49Z")
Ok, so you’ve found one instance where a _possibility_ exists that a state legislator was persecuted because he tried to talk about the USS _Liberty_. I would like to point out that: 1. We have no idea how objective this representative is being. This article is written entirely from his point of view, so a strong probability of bias exists, just as much as in the other articles which you denounced for being biased sources. We do not know what other factors may have motivated Schneider’s removal from leadership. It is quite possible that other members of the legislature had serious issues with him. During that session of the legislature, he might have voted against party lines, and with that in mind, he was voted out of party leadership. 2. Likewise, we don’t know the point of view of anyone else in the legislature. Personally, I believe that a state legislature is not the place to vote on launching an investigation into the _Liberty_ incident. This would be more of an issue for the US Congress. It is quite possible that the Republican leader felt the same way. I understand that the above is for the most part speculation, but when dealing with an issue such as this, conrete facts are often hard to find. However, the following are concrete facts: There is an abundance of information on the _Liberty_ in the form of books, official reports, and websites. The thread about this topic is one of the longest on the front page of Great Debates. If the topic was taboo, then none of this would be occuring. As others have already pointed out, you simply do not hear about this every day because it happened over 30 years ago, and, in the grand scheme of things, was relatively unimportant. ---
**Author:** ![Henry\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d78d45/32.png) [@Henry\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henry_B)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-greatest-taboo/128975/84 "2002-09-25T20:21:27Z")
**TheJackOfHearts** I mostly agree on what You are writing. Only the last paragraph is something I am not so sure about. I do not think that “taboo” means in this case “a totally forbidden issue”. It would also be interesting to know how the media handled this some 30 years ago. From my nowadays geographical position it is impossible to find out. And to put the event to a frame, I would say that if we believe that the “hush-hush” really existed etc., I can tell You that it exists everywhere. I have the hunsch that “everywhere” people knows that it happens all the time, but in US it seem to chock people everytime there is a “scandal” or a hush-hush. Peace ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2002, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-greatest-taboo/128975/85 "2002-09-26T11:38:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Henry B \* > \*\ ***TheJackOfHearts** > > I mostly agree on what You are writing. > Only the last paragraph is something I am not so sure about. > I do not think that “taboo” means in this case “a totally forbidden issue”. \*\* From Webster Unabridged Online– > [@](#): > > Main Entry: 1ta·boo > Variant(s): also ta·bu /t&-'bĂŒ, ta-/ > Function: adjective > Etymology: Tongan tabu > Date: 1777 > 1 : forbidden to profane use or contact because of what are held to be dangerous supernatural powers > 2 a : banned on grounds of morality or taste \ b : banned as constituting a risk \ Balls in your court. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![occ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@occ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/occ)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-greatest-taboo/128975/86 "2002-09-27T21:01:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rossarian \* > \*\*The incident is not well known because in the broad scheme of history, it didn’t matter. Yes, it mattered to those involved, especially those wounded and killed, but nothing came of the event. \*\* Oh, and you forgot one thing: it matters to those with a hilariously obvious agenda. What’s to debate, here? The OP disingenuously suggests that the poster wants to debate whether this is the biggest taboo in America. I can’t think of a scale wherein this would rank with any of the major taboos I can think of (and I can’t come up with many – Americans aren’t much for taboos). Therefore, we’re simply debating this person’s agenda, which is to foster anger towards Israel, and by extension, Jews. Since the OP clearly has no logical argument, why are we attempting to debate this “issue”? Come on, a Tom Clancy novel as a “cite”? Taking a joke (re: Iraq and the Stark) as a serious tirade against Zionist conspiracy? Sheesh! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americas-greatest-taboo/128975.md?page=4)