"Americatown" in foreign cities?

[Wendell_Wagner]

The Niply Elder writes:

> Sorry for the hijack, but I’ve never seen one of these “Pittsburg” nor “Boston”
> sports bars. What are they?

I don’t know much about these, and so perhaps Tom Tildrum might want to speak to this and tell me if the following is right, but there was an article in The Washington Post a few years ago about this topic for the Washington area. It’s not necessarily that the bar is decorated in fashion of the city or serves the food of the city or is named for the city. It’s that whenever the sports teams of the city are available on television, the big screen TV in the bar will show their games. There are enough sports fans who moved to the Washington area from that city to make it worthwhile for the bar to show those games on their TV.

[JustinC]

Around Camp Casey (US Army base) in South Korea there are, maybe, 30 bars, a half dozen restaurants and various shops almost exclusively frequented by Americans from the base. The staff (and I assume owners) are not American so, even though you can pay in USD in most, I wouldn’t classify it as an Americatown.

Itaewon in Seoul has lots of long-term expats with probably the majority being American. Again streetside businesses are usually not staffed by Americans (or Europeans). It’s only anecdotal but the resident Americans I met had skills that allowed them to work in occupations that provided more than just waiting tables.

I’ve been in bars in Hong Kong that were almost exclusively frequented by Europeans; there and at the horse racing it’s more of a clique than a congregation, if that makes sense.

[Horatio_Hellpop]

I came here to mention Itaewon in Seoul. I’m sitting in an expat bar (Canadian-owned) in Daegu as I write this, probably two kilometers from a sizable US Army base. Every such base I’m aware of has Korean merchants who cater to American tastes and speak pretty good English.

I’m in a sizable apartment complex called Woobang Apartments. My building has about 40 expats living in it, mostly teachers at Yeungjin College, my employer.

[bob_2]

@Alessan

That was true in the past, and it’s still true in the more secular areas - my parents’ friends from Haifa are a gaggle of Americans, Bits and Aussies. The accepted term here, incidentally, is “Anglosaxim”.

However, there’s been a huge amount of religious American immigration over the past 30 years ago, so much so that it’s pretty much overwhelmed the old Anglosaxim communities in places like Jerusalem. As of now, the English-speaking communities in these areas is almost exclusively American.

Israelis don’t really do that. You have plenty of towns and neighborhoods that are dominatde by immigrants from some country or another, but generally speaking, they don’t get renamed as a result.

On a recent tour in Israel I was struck by the way that the guide identified towns by their religion. “That’s a Coptic village; That’s a Christian town,” etc.

[BrokenBriton]

The 2001 UK Census recorded 158,434 people born in the United States.[1] Estimates published by the Office for National Statistics suggest that, in 2009, the equivalent figure stood at 189,000.[2] The 2011 census counted 177,185 people living in England and Wales were born in the United States.[3]

The largest single local cluster of Americans in Britain recorded by the 2001 Census was in Mildenhall in north-west Suffolk – the site of two of the largest US Air Force bases in the world, RAF Mildenhall and nearby RAF Lakenheath. This is because of the legacy of the Cold War and NATO cooperation. 17.28 percent of Mildenhall’s population were born in the US. In London, the majority of Americans are businesspeople and their families which ties in with the strong economic relations between London and Washington DC. Chelsea (where 6.53 percent of residents were born in the US in 2001) and Kensington (5.81 percent), have large American populations.[4]

Americans in the United Kingdom

[DCnDC]

@BrokenBriton

The 2001 UK Census recorded 158,434 people born in the United States.[1] Estimates published by the Office for National Statistics suggest that, in 2009, the equivalent figure stood at 189,000.[2] The 2011 census counted 177,185 people living in England and Wales were born in the United States.[3]

The largest single local cluster of Americans in Britain recorded by the 2001 Census was in Mildenhall in north-west Suffolk – the site of two of the largest US Air Force bases in the world, RAF Mildenhall and nearby RAF Lakenheath. This is because of the legacy of the Cold War and NATO cooperation. 17.28 percent of Mildenhall’s population were born in the US. In London, the majority of Americans are businesspeople and their families which ties in with the strong economic relations between London and Washington DC. Chelsea (where 6.53 percent of residents were born in the US in 2001) and Kensington (5.81 percent), have large American populations.[4]

Americans in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

But do they [non-military] live in close proximity to one another?

[Lamia]

@coremelt

Osaka, Japan has America-mura, but it’s not where ex pats live, it’s a fashion and night life area with American themed bars, restaurants and clothing stores. Even includes a Statue of Liberty on top of one of the buildings. You do see quite a lot of foreigners there but it’s also very popular with japanese youth.

I was about to mention Amerika-mura. I was under the impression that the name originated because this was the neighborhood in Osaka where a lot of American military personnel lived during the post-WWII occupation, but the Wikipedia entry for Amerika-mura doesn’t say anything about that so maybe I was wrong. In any event, as you say there aren’t many Americans living there now.

@Mijin

I still don’t agree with this idea that Americans/Europeans usually assimilate. In many Asian cities I’ve stayed in, there is often a big cluster of expats, with western shops serving them.

I don’t think it’s that Americans are good at assimilating, I think it’s just that we tend not to move to other countries in large numbers and thus can’t form our own “Americatowns”…except for military bases, as has been mentioned. When I was living in Japan I was in a town near a US military base so there were plenty of Americans in the area, but the base folks mostly stayed on and around the base. AFAIK there were less than half a dozen Americans in town who were not in any way affiliated with the base.

[Alessan]

@bob_2

On a recent tour in Israel I was struck by the way that the guide identified towns by their religion. “That’s a Coptic village; That’s a Christian town,” etc.

True; but strictly speaking, none of those are immigrants.

[Tom_Tildrum]

@Krokodil

I’m in a sizable apartment complex called Woobang Apartments.

It was those English-language ads that attracted you there, wasn’t it: “Who bang? YOU bang! Everybody bang! Come live here!”

[TokyoBayer]

@Pjen

I suspect the answer lies in a certain class distinction. If migration is largely non-skilled and lower class, congregation is almost certain to appear as the communities seek to defend their interests. Where migration is professional and middle class this happens less.

This is very much part of the answer, as it appears that ethnic enclaves develop as a means of developing and transferring social capital among an ethnic group.

You also need to look at the numbers of immigrants in a particular city, patterns of immigration and the people who comprise the members.

Looking at Japan as an example, according the Tokyo government, there were 22,000 Americans living in Tokyo (out of 8 million). However, the vast majority of these people are not whole families permanently emigrating there. There are what we call the “expat” community, high level businessmen, traders, engineers, etc., who are posted to Japan for several years. Their economic, housing and other needs are supplied by their companies and there is no dependence on a community. They usually live in expensive areas in Tokyo, in what is jokingly referred to as the “gaijin (foreigner) ghetto” an area between Roppongi, Azabu and Hiroo. You will find businesses which cater to Westerns, but the number of Westerners isn’t even a sizable minority out of the total population of that district.

There are local hires, Americans who are hired either by Japanese or foreign companies or organizations, and aren’t the lucky recipients of large rent subsidies so they must live in less expensive areas. I used to be one of those. However, we too would not be dependent on fellow Americans for jobs or opportunities. For whatever reason, there are more American men than women in Japan, and not a few married locals.

There is also a large number of mostly younger people who are over for a few years teaching English, and who don’t have a long term interest in the host nation.

Ethnic enclaves seem to form more where there are whole families who are more dependent on each other.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Near Itaewon in Seoul, there is a residential area called the HBC by expats (short for Haebangchon, which translates to “liberation village” - called that since the Korean War). It is heavily populated by foreigners. Lots of Americans, but also plenty of people from other countries as well. There are a few American-style sports bars and some shops that sell foreign foods that would be difficult to get elsewhere in Korea. Until recently many Koreans would have considered it the ghetto, but it’s started to become gentrified.

Itaewon was also once known as a rather seedy place, but lately it’s become the hip place to be. Nowadays most people who hang out there are Korean.

ETA: I think the overall situation is similar to Japan, in that most Americans here are not here with their families and do not intend to stay in Korea for more than a few years. Those that do settle down usually marry Korean women.

[Balthisar]

San Miguel de Allende in Mexico comes to mind. Oh, it’s definitely very Mexican, but there are so many Americans that nearly every restaurant has an English menu, and many of them have prices in US dollars. It’s actually such a nice, lovely town that I would consider retiring myself there someday. However that’s in spite the Americans, not because of them (unlike Nava’s first example, I’m actually quite fluent in Spanish). On the other hand the Americans drive the prices way up, so it might be a better idea to look for someplace less invaded.

@Mijin

I’m living in Shanghai right now, and the expat population is very densely clustered into one or two places.
…
I don’t know if the locals have a nickname for this area. I’ll report back later.

Shanghai is where I go when I want to escape to the west (I live in Nanjing). The first time I visited my dentist in Pudong (better service than I can get in Nanjing) on Hongfeng Lu, I was amazed. I felt like I was in Ann Arbor, Michigan. And of course in Pudong is Kerry Parkside, which also feels very non-Chinese.

In general (for this thread) in Nanjing we don’t have a Americantown. However there are so many western foreigners from many western countries, and we fall into three major groups.

University students assimilate best. They either live in dorms or with roommates, and like most college kids they don’t have a lot of money. They tend to eat at local Chinese low-cost restaurants.

Then there are English teachers. The ones I know tend to mostly stick together, but live in Chinese buildings where the rent is low. A surprising amount of them don’t know Chinese and aren’t interested. They hang out at expat bars and restaurants which aren’t really in a single zone, but spread throughout the city.

Then there are us corporate guys (and gals). We do tend to congregate in three or four different neighborhoods, centered about the two major foreign schools that are in the city. We don’t assimilate because we’re expat workers, not immigrants. I’m okay with that, because we work long hours. I get frustrated by the spouses, who have a great opportunity to experience culture, but instead most of them form social groups that specialize on making fun of the locals. We tend to go to the high-end Chinese restaurants, or especially the expat restaurants and bars.

I guess the only thing close to Americantown, then, are the two international schools. Well, one is the British school, so I suppose it’s more like a Brittown.

[bump]

Sounds to me like this is the situation:

1. In the UK, Australia, US, and Canada, most expats from the other 3 fit into the general society fairly well, due to a lot of shared culture & a shared language. There may be specialty shops for specific items that they miss, and some events for expats, but that’s about it.

2. In non-English speaking Western countries, they tend to stick together into a sort of expat community, but without really being separate from each other- there isn’t really a distinct British area, American area, etc… but rather a “English-speaking area”.

3. In non-English speaking non-Western countries, there’s more of a Western-Expat community than anything else, with the French, Italians, etc… all sort of hanging out together and frequenting the same shops.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@SanVito

The area around Grosvenor Square in London, where the US Embassy currently resides, is known as ‘Little America’, although this is more to do with political connections to the area than expat residents (John Adams lived here, Eisenhower had his base here etc).

Nitpick: Eisenhower was based at Camp Griffis in Teddington.

[GIGObuster]

@snowthx

I hear Lake Chapala near Guadalajara, Mexico, has a lot of American expats.

Around Guadalajara they are numerous enough that there is even a theater group made of expats and long term residents.

I did had a chance to see a version of “South Pacific” circa 1990 with great production values, one nice touch was that the mixed children of the French plantation owner did not need make up, they were the real deal but with a mix of American and Mexican parents in real life.

[Mijin]

@Balthisar

University students assimilate best. They either live in dorms or with roommates, and like most college kids they don’t have a lot of money. They tend to eat at local Chinese low-cost restaurants.

Then there are English teachers. The ones I know tend to mostly stick together, but live in Chinese buildings where the rent is low. A surprising amount of them don’t know Chinese and aren’t interested. They hang out at expat bars and restaurants which aren’t really in a single zone, but spread throughout the city.

Then there are us corporate guys (and gals). We do tend to congregate in three or four different neighborhoods, centered about the two major foreign schools that are in the city. We don’t assimilate because we’re expat workers, not immigrants. I’m okay with that, because we work long hours. I get frustrated by the spouses, who have a great opportunity to experience culture, but instead most of them form social groups that specialize on making fun of the locals. We tend to go to the high-end Chinese restaurants, or especially the expat restaurants and bars.

I’ve only been here 3 months but this description matches my experience very well. I’ve definitely seen all 3 types (if you’re wondering, I’m one of the corporate guys, but sans spouse).

For the first few weeks I found the native population to be very aloof, even rude. But then I saw that they are usually very friendly once you actually try to speak Mandarin, and show some interest in their culture.
The majority of expats don’t do this (as you say, that may be justified in many cases; I’m not about to understate the time investment it takes to learn a language, but still), so they are invisible.

</hijack>

[Balthisar]

@Mijin

The majority of expats don’t do this (as you say, that may be justified in many cases; I’m not about to understate the time investment it takes to learn a language, but still), so they are invisible.

Where are you? Anyway, I’ve learned passable German, fluent Spanish, and can mumble some words in other Romance languages. I’ve been taking Chinese, when in town, for two years now. It’s hard. I’ve always thought I could learn anything, but Chinese is a special challenge. I don’t blame my fellow corporate expats one bit for not learning it.

[Mijin]

@Balthisar

Where are you? Anyway, I’ve learned passable German, fluent Spanish, and can mumble some words in other Romance languages. I’ve been taking Chinese, when in town, for two years now. It’s hard. I’ve always thought I could learn anything, but Chinese is a special challenge. I don’t blame my fellow corporate expats one bit for not learning it.

Yes, and just so we’re clear I wasn’t sneering at anyone. When it comes to the language, I’m a noob too.

I also have some background in spanish and german and agree it’s in a different league. The main thing I’ve found so far is it seems far less forgiving of mistakes. And by mistake I just mean pronouncing one syllable in a phrase slightly incorrectly.
I guess because it’s quite terse at times, and most syllables have several meanings (and by syllable here I mean same initial, final and tone).

[SanVito]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Nitpick: Eisenhower was based at Camp Griffis in Teddington.

AND Grosvenor Square - hey, don’t take my word for it, ask the US Embassy:

The Eisenhower Statue, dedicated January 23, 1989, stands just across the road from the buildings that General Eisenhower occupied as Commander in Chief of the Allied Force (June - November 1942) and Supreme Commander, Allied Expeditionary Force (January - March 1944). During World War II Grosvenor Square was the nerve center of the American Armed Forces in Great Britain.

[Nava]

@Balthisar

However that’s in spite the Americans, not because of them (unlike Nava’s first example, I’m actually quite fluent in Spanish). On the other hand the Americans drive the prices way up, so it might be a better idea to look for someplace less invaded.

To be fair, that guy was an extreme case. While I’ve heard of other Americans living in Latin America and not learning the language or mixing with the locals any more than could be avoided, most of them had been on location for a couple of years and knew they were going back.

I do have met foreign retirees who had been living in Spain for a long time and couldn’t speak the local language; in that case it was a mixture of easy availability of TV, radio, services and social groups in their own language, and of the locals’ eagerness to practice their own English or German. I also suspect that some of them could actually speak it at levels which we would have been perfectly happy with, but too often when it comes to foreign languages we think that if we can’t speak them as well as our own we shouldn’t even try - there has to be a name for that logical epic fail…