# Amish grace. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 3, 2007, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-grace/421328 "2007-10-03T01:25:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2007, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-grace/421328/21 "2007-10-03T21:40:36Z")
[QUOTE=panache45] Yes, “homophobia” is a broad term, and it includes the idea that there should be no same-sex marriages. [/QUOTE] That’s a positively Humpty-Dumptian use of language. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2007, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-grace/421328/22 "2007-10-03T22:35:24Z")
[QUOTE=panache45] Look. At the time, there were quite a few local news stories about this. If you want to believe that I made it all up, go right ahead. My intention wasn’t to hijack this thread, **only to point out that not everybody shares the OP’s adulation of the Amish**. That’s all I have to say. [/QUOTE] Seems to me that the OP (and others in this thread) were pointing out admiration for the Amish community’s ability to forgive when they’ve been wronged. I don’t know that anyone here has suggested that the Amish as a whole are without any faults whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-grace/421328/23 "2007-10-04T02:25:21Z")
[QUOTE=panache45] Look. At the time, there were quite a few local news stories about this. If you want to believe that I made it all up, go right ahead.\ [/QUOTE] I don’t doubt what you saw with your own eyes, but my kindly-meant advice to you is to question things you see on news stories. We are awash in junk journalism these days, in my opinion. To somewhat get back to the OP, my mom is Mennonite, and some of the ways she and her family act are astonishingly full of grace. The Amish and the related Mennonites are definitely not perfect (not believing in education, for one thing), but they do have some good things going on. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-grace/421328/24 "2007-10-04T04:25:32Z")
post rescinded ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-grace/421328/25 "2007-10-04T04:39:02Z")
Wait a second people… **panache45** has real media coverage on his side (assuming he can find a cite), and yes the media can be and often is wrong but what do you have on your side besides not wanting to believe it? Let’s not start screaming people down because you can’t find a cite for your own side. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-grace/421328/26 "2007-10-04T04:55:35Z")
[QUOTE=Sage Rat] Wait a second people… **panache45** has real media coverage on his side (assuming he can find a cite), and yes the media can be and often is wrong but what do you have on your side besides not wanting to believe it? Let’s not start screaming people down because you can’t find a cite for your own side. [/QUOTE] Since **panache45** has not, in fact, managed to find a cite yet, he actually doesn’t have real media coverage on his side, apart from his own recollections. And what kind of cite are you suggesting that everyone else find? A news article saying, “As expected, the Amish community, as usual, did not turn out to vote for Proposition 1”? Whoa, stop the presses! I’m not saying that the Amish did or did not turn out to vote for Prop. 1, but I will remain noncommittal on this issue until someone turns up an actual cite either way. And regardless, the Amish capacity for forgiveness is indeed remarkable and admirable, no matter how you feel about other aspects of their religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-grace/421328/27 "2007-10-04T06:11:27Z")
[QUOTE=Sage Rat] Wait a second people… **panache45** has real media coverage on his side (assuming he can find a cite), and yes the media can be and often is wrong but what do you have on your side besides not wanting to believe it? Let’s not start screaming people down because you can’t find a cite for your own side. [/QUOTE] What **MsWhatsit** said. You can’t have evidence of something NOT occurring. Besides, I lived in Ohio during the time in question, same as **panache45** , and about as far away from the area we are talking about. I don’t recall any such media coverage. It may have been a story only in the Cleveland-Canton area, as I was closer to Columbus, but that still wouldn’t make it true. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-grace/421328/28 "2007-10-04T08:45:03Z")
[QUOTE=Lizard] What **MsWhatsit** said. You can’t have evidence of something NOT occurring. [/QUOTE] Of course not, but indignant outrage isn’t evidence of something NOT occuring either, which is my point. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-grace/421328/29 "2007-10-04T08:48:42Z")
10 seconds of Googling and: [ > [@New York Times](#): > > Referring to Ohio’s large Amish population, he said: “The Amish are telling us they never registered before, but they are this time. They have no phones, so nobody’s polling them or calling them. It’s just an incredible thing.” ]([http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/03/politics/campaign/03gay.html?n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/K/Kershaw,%20Sarah](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/03/politics/campaign/03gay.html?n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/K/Kershaw,%20Sarah)) ---
**Author:** ![Sanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sanders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sanders)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-grace/421328/30 "2007-10-04T16:02:35Z")
[QUOTE=Lizard] They also believe **drinking** , drugs, pre-marital sex, adultery, lying, cheating, stealing, and violence are immoral. Of course, like humans everywhere, they still occasionally do all of these things anyway. [/QUOTE] I’m curious to see a citation for the Amish believing that drinking is immoral. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-grace/421328/31 "2007-10-04T16:04:41Z")
Backing up **panache45** ’s position (sort of), I did find some articles that suggest the Amish community supported Bush during the 2004 elections based largely on his conservative and religious views. [Cite](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5613947/). One could extrapolate from there that if there were some Amish willing to vote for Bush for those reasons, the same Amish would be willing to vote for Proposition 1. Having said that, I still don’t think that has anything to do with the OP’s recognition of Amish _grace_. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-grace/421328/32 "2007-10-04T16:55:36Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] 1. You don’t know that the signs you saw were in the yards of Amish people. [/QUOTE] A small point: It’s pretty easy to tell which homes are Amish just by looking: plain white houses, often large with several additions; no power lines running to the house; usually no gas-powered vehicles visible; black buggies in the yard (duh); any sort of hand-painted business sign out front (quilts, woodworking, fresh eggs) that says “Closed Sundays.” And, of course, people in Amish clothing. At least in central Wisconsin, those are the indicators. The rest of your points are well-taken. ---
**Author:** ![StuffLikeThatThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc8723/32.png) [@StuffLikeThatThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StuffLikeThatThere)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2007, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-grace/421328/33 "2007-10-05T00:51:53Z")
[QUOTE=Sanders] I’m curious to see a citation for the Amish believing that drinking is immoral. [/QUOTE] I don’t have a cite for this, so slay me if you must. Here’s an anecdote. The Amish men that my husband knows personally (who speak only for themselves, mind) have explained their views on alcohol thus: doctrinally, they are not opposed to all alcohol. They do not, however, wish to support the American alcohol industry, which they see as irresponsible at best. Therefore, home bottled wine and beer is fine. Busch Light, not so much. That’s doctrine, of course. Which may or may not have any real bearing on behavior, as we all know. Your mileage may vary, this offer applies only to those with a credit score of 875, etc. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2007, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-grace/421328/34 "2007-10-05T01:19:55Z")
Alchohol = food? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-grace/421328.md?page=1)