# Amish-on-Amish violence raises concerns **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 10, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140 "2011-10-10T02:18:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140/1 "2011-10-10T02:18:49Z")
[QUOTE=[Three charged in Amish-on-Amish violence - UPI.com](http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/10/09/Three-charged-in-Amish-on-Amish-violence/UPI-92701318167046/)] BERGHOLZ, Ohio, Oct. 9 (UPI) – Authorities said they have charged three Amish men accused in a series of Amish-on-Amish attacks across four eastern Ohio counties. Levi Miller, 53, Johnny S. Mullet, 38, and Lester Mullet, 26, have been charged with aggravated burglary and kidnapping in one of the attacks, which involved cutting off the beards and hair of an Amish family, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported. They were being held on $250,000 bond, the newspaper said. [/QUOTE] It is still uncertain who or what will raise its ugly head as a result. No requests for additional community empowerment funding are forthcoming as of press time. But seriously, The Onion has anticipated many things over the years, but not this gem. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140/2 "2011-10-10T02:38:50Z")
Please tell me there was a low-speed buggy chase involved. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140/3 "2011-10-10T02:41:16Z")
Meh, nothing unusual here. Amish are people. People aren’t prefect and sometimes do violent and stupid things. At least they only cut off beards as opposed to killing. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140/4 "2011-10-10T02:51:08Z")
> [@](#): > > which involved cutting off the beards and hair of an Amish family Sounds like the plot to shave Hitler’s mustache. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140/5 "2011-10-10T03:12:32Z")
The Amish are well known pacifists. They even forgave that sick bastard that shot up the Amish school a few years ago. The Amish won’t even report abuse they get from us. People thinking it’s funny to run them off the road. Push them around. Damage their farms. They never report it because their religion demands that they forgive anyone that harms them. Violence among the Amish is a very big deal. It violates everything their religion stands for. Something is very off here. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140/6 "2011-10-10T03:34:11Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The Amish are well known pacifists. They even forgave that sick bastard that shot up the Amish school a few years ago. The Amish won’t even report abuse they get from us. People thinking it’s funny to run them off the road. Push them around. Damage their farms. They never report it because their religion demands that they forgive anyone that harms them. > > Violence among the Amish is a very big deal. It violates everything their religion stands for. Something is very off here. That’s… a little overstated. I have Amish friends, and that’s not really the way it works. Here’s the quick rebuttal version: The Amish are very aware that they are a small community in a larger country. They hold themselves to a much different standard of behavior than they do outsiders. When someone commits a crime against the Amish, they will report it, they expect the police and the courts to prosecute the offender, and will even testify if necessary, but they don’t expect or accept monetary restitution, and will often plea for leniency on the part of the court if there are any extenuating circumstances at all. Basically, they see the country’s job as apprehending and punishing or rehabilitating the criminal, and their job as forgiving them and trying to use the event to further God’s will in their lives. There is a difference between forgiving someone and making sure that they are not constantly being victimized by them. They are just like any other American in that they are quite willing to be protected by the police and the court system, they just don’t feel the need to be compensated by the state (or often even by the criminal) for their damages. They tend to avoid someone “owing them” anything, even in situations (like house fires or crime sprees) where other Americans are quite used to accepting that we “deserve” restitution (whether in the form of FEMA aid, court damages, or insurance pay-outs). A cultural difference there, but not as dire as aceplace depicted. As far as Amish violence, yes, they are pacifistic as a culture, but there are always bad eggs, and domestic violence in particular has been culturally high in Amish communities. Only recently have there been mass cultural efforts to recognize, punish, and attempt to squelch that. What’s sad here is that because these three became so overt about their actions, the Amish now have to let the courts handle this, instead of trying to deal with it themselves. They are probably very embarrassed about that. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140/7 "2011-10-10T03:56:22Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > It is still uncertain who or what will raise its ugly head as a result. Well hang on, you can’t assume this. Some people look good bald and clean shaven. ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140/8 "2011-10-10T04:40:54Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > What’s sad here is that because these three became so overt about their actions, the Amish now have to let the courts handle this, instead of trying to deal with it themselves. They are probably very embarrassed about that. was the reporting of the crime itself a slip-up on their part? Would it not have more sense for them to respond with ostracism and passive defense measures instead of handing the decidedly non-capital-crime offenders over to the police? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140/9 "2011-10-10T05:35:02Z")
I’m going to arm myself before these bands of Amish thugs make their way up to Rhode Island. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140/10 "2011-10-10T06:53:38Z")
I’m fully in favor of Amish-on-Amish violence if it involves exosuits, powerfists and laser rifles. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140/11 "2011-10-10T07:29:31Z")
Since the Amish have a strict culture of pacifism, it stands to reason that any violent individuals in this community are necessarily that way because of genetic _predisposition_ to violence, rather than being influenced by external factors. For the good of the Amish community’s future, could Amish elders or community council members expel these “bad seeds” permanently from the Amish order, with the goal of eliminating them from the geen pool? Obviously, they are the children of people already in the community, but in these individuals, I assume the “violent gene” would be recessive, rather than dominant as in the case of the bad children. I know the Amish reject modern technology. But do they also reject the findings of modern scientific _theory_ as well? I’m genuinely curious about this. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140/12 "2011-10-10T12:58:28Z")
news i read said the attackers were ex-Amish with some kind of grunge. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140/13 "2011-10-10T12:58:58Z")
I wouldn’t say so. They participate in medical research, especially genetic research, although not to do with “genetic violence” as you mention. The Amish are an insular society so are prone to hereditary disease, and there is a disproportionate incidence of dwarfism, Crigler-Najjar syndrome, seisure disorders, and [others](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/08/60II/main700519.shtml). They usually are willing to participate in studies and accept treatment; they just don’t carry insurance as it’s viewed as not trusting in God. If they need money they raise it themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140/14 "2011-10-10T14:39:17Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > I’m fully in favor of Amish-on-Amish violence if it involves exosuits, powerfists and laser rifles. > [@johnpost](#): > > news i read said the attackers were ex-Amish with some kind of grunge. Now I’m picturing a guy in a brim hat and long beard in a mecha suit and an electric guitar playing Nirvana. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140/15 "2011-10-10T15:25:45Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > news i read said the attackers were ex-Amish with some kind of grunge. > [@Ludovic](#): > > Now I’m picturing a guy in a brim hat and long beard in a mecha suit and an electric guitar playing Nirvana. that would be a grudge. not be a typist and relying on on-the-fly spell check to flag errors produces results like that sometimes when i’m being quick. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140/16 "2011-10-10T15:33:16Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > was the reporting of the crime itself a slip-up on their part? Would it not have more sense for them to respond with ostracism and passive defense measures instead of handing the decidedly non-capital-crime offenders over to the police? I don’t know that community, so I can’t say for sure, but kidnapping and assault tends to be taken pretty seriously by everyone I know. This particular assault didn’t cause permanent physical damage, but it’s still assault. Also, after Nickel Mines, things like this get taken a lot more seriously than perhaps they were before. Now, that doesn’t mean that the offenders WON’T get shunned by the community and dealt with under their church laws, just that the “English” court system is involved as well to assure everyone’s safety. That’s the part I mean that they’ll be saddened/ashamed by - that they either didn’t notice or weren’t able to fix the problem before it got so severe that it had to be dealt with by the outside legal system. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140/17 "2011-10-10T15:38:00Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > news i read said the attackers were ex-Amish with some kind of grunge. They sound more like hair-band types, to me. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140/18 "2011-10-10T15:39:42Z")
Johnny Mullet cut off the beards and hair of another family? You must be joking. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140/19 "2011-10-10T16:00:49Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I know the Amish reject modern technology. But do they also reject the findings of modern scientific _theory_ as well? I’m genuinely curious about this. They don’t reject modern technology, just technology that they feel detracts from community. Like, say, buttons. Nowadays buttons on clothing are almost always unobtrusive. But back in the 18whatevers, buttons were often ornamental and decorative. And so, they Amish decided that in their community, no one should wear buttons. And they still don’t. Not because buttons are newfangled technology from Satan, but because buttons are an opportunity to show off. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140/20 "2011-10-10T16:10:32Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > The Amish…tend to avoid someone “owing them” anything, even in situations (like house fires or crime sprees) where other Americans are quite used to accepting that we **“deserve”** restitution (whether in the form of FEMA aid, court damages, or insurance pay-outs). Is this some kind of morality test? 😕 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amish-on-amish-violence-raises-concerns/599140.md?page=2)