# Ammunition Accountability Act **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 3, 2008, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ammunition-accountability-act/475513 "2008-12-03T16:09:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ammunition-accountability-act/475513/301 "2008-12-05T19:50:17Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I found Scalia’s opinion lacking and the dissent more persuasive. I can sum it up simply but of course Steven’s did far better. > > If the framers wanted to say, “The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed,” then they could have. These things were sweated over and debated ad nauseum. Adding in, “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,” is not a rhetorical flourish. Scalia tries to handwave that away with some rhetorical flourishes of his own but I do not think it can be entirely ignored. Take that from an Originalist, Textualist or Living Document reading. Where was the handwaving? We’ve already gone over where the right of self-defense comes from, and the limitations of the powers of the federal government. On what grounds specifically do you find the dissent more convincing? I have read it, and found it both impotent and ignorant. If you disagree, I would be interested in hearing your reasoning. Take any approach to reading the Constitution you wish. But what is so far lacking, both in the dissent in _Heller_ and in your arguments, is any rational indication of why the prefatory clause of the Second Amendment implies any contingency of the operative clause, and furthermore why it would even matter if it did, given what you have already admitted to an understanding of the powers granted by the Constitution, the right of self-defense, the legacy of the common law, and the significance of the Ninth Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ammunition-accountability-act/475513/302 "2008-12-05T20:03:09Z")
Well. Before this thing spirals any wider, I’d like to interject another objection (or two) to ammunition serialization that I don’t believe has been raised yet. First and foremost, it is potentially extremely dangerous. Operating a laser engraver in a plant filled with explosive material is just asking for trouble - kinda like smoking in a fireworks factory. There’s a reason even such seemingly harmless things, like flash photography, are not permitted in ammunition manufacturing facilities. Can you guess why that might be? Boom. Here’s another part of an argument offered earlier - that there is currently only one equipment manufacturer pushing ammunition serialization. That being an outfit called “Ravensforge.” Ravensforge makes skateboard components and has no relevant expertise in the area of ammunition manufacturing. And finally, the relevant professional society - the Association of Firearm and Toolmark Examiners (AFTE) - has yet to study this issue or publish anything about it in their journal. Surely these folks would have come out in favor if serialization if they thought it both feasible and useful. But they’ve not. > **[Fact Sheets and Backgrounders](https://www.nssf.org/government-relations/factsheets/)** > > Quick reference pages on topics of interest that affect the firearms industry, including regulations, bans, crime statistics and more. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ammunition-accountability-act/475513/303 "2008-12-05T20:17:24Z")
And this idea ain’t anything new either. It was actually first proposed in 1930 after the anti-gun right lobby failed to get their wish for a national mandatory firearm registration scheme. It died aborning then for much the same reason it’s doomed to failure now. It’s not practicable, nor useful. The idea then laid dormant until 1969 when a crime commission under LBJ resurrected and recommended an implementation. Again, it was doomeed to failure for the same reasons. And in fact there actually was something kinda similar to this enacted by the U.S. Congress at one time. Legislation was passed that required handgun ammunition purchasers to sign a ledger whenever they bought such. The legislation was repealed in 1983 (for rimfire cartridges) & in 1986 (for centerfire cartridges). The reasons given for the repeal were, you guessed it, identical to the reasons it won’t work now. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ammunition-accountability-act/475513/304 "2008-12-05T20:21:56Z")
It is the sheer volume that I think is escaping anyone who supports this. The Federal Cartridge Company in Anoka, Mn can kick out over one million rounds of .22 cal bullets daily. How is that assembly line supposed to now incorporate laser etching per 50 round box and still maintain their production quotas? In one year they will go through 7.3 million serial numbers, based upon 50 per box on their own, concerning only ONE of the dozens of rounds that they make every day. This from ONE of the major manufacturers. The paperwork to manage this system would be daunting to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ammunition-accountability-act/475513/305 "2008-12-05T22:18:06Z")
Leaving on international flight shortly. Doing this from iPhone too which is difficult. Not bailing…wish I could continue. Enjoyed the debate! Carry on… ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ammunition-accountability-act/475513/306 "2008-12-05T22:59:57Z")
> [@haymarketmartyr](#): > > Its the extremists with loads of automatic weapons and military weapons that people want to see controlled. I am all for hunters keeping their guns and the other stuff I mentioned. I do not anyone to have heavy duty military style automatic weapons. Do you have evidence to suggest that “extremists with loads of automatic weapons and military weapons” are a significant source of crime? ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ammunition-accountability-act/475513/307 "2008-12-06T00:54:11Z")
What about birdshot? I think that might be a bit hard to etch. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ammunition-accountability-act/475513/308 "2008-12-06T02:49:42Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Do you have evidence to suggest that “extremists with loads of automatic weapons and military weapons” are a significant source of crime? Dude have you SEEN Miami Vice? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ammunition-accountability-act/475513.md?page=15)