# Amsterdam Pro Gay-Idiots **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 22, 2008, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336 "2008-12-22T18:10:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336/61 "2008-12-23T04:30:46Z")
Oh, heavens! Not on the street but rather in the private courtyard of a gay club some guys dress up in Christmas drag? What’s the world coming to! How _ **dare** _ they not show proper respect for a ridiculous mythology attached to a faith which oppressed them horribly for centuries! Have they no shame? No shame at all? ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336/62 "2008-12-23T04:40:43Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > With all due respect, that’s bullshit. Gays behaving is just another way to make us and our issues go away. Yeah, we know what the closet is. Works great if you’re into ignoring us. > > No more closets, thanks. I don’t think I ever asked gays to “behave,” whatever that means. I just ask that they don’t be assholes and do insulting things. I don’t care about gay pride events. That is all fine and good. I just feel that if you want to be respected you ought not go around disrespecting others. I can understand the desire to lash out at Christians and others who are responsible for oppressing gays. But I generally abide by the rule that you should respect others lives and beliefs. And I don’t appreciate it when any particular group shows disrespect of others. I don’t like it when athiests (like myself) ridicule Christians either. That’s just the way I feel about things, and I don’t think it’s a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336/63 "2008-12-23T04:44:17Z")
I don’t think this was an “activist” activity. It was just a bunch of people having fun, doing something funny. I’m not even sure how it’s news. I’m sure I’ve seen way more offensive things than this. ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336/64 "2008-12-23T05:07:46Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Dumbasses. Fucking idiots. In these days of uncertainty, complexity, and confusion, it’s more valuable than ever to have a completely reliable bellwether such as **Liberal** to guide us. Yea, one must only turn to him and learn his views… … and then do or think the exact opposite. You are our inverted loadstar, **Liberal** , and I praise you for your constancy. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336/65 "2008-12-23T05:07:55Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Look at how civil rights advocates acted in the sixties. They were well-dressed, polite, non-violent and ultimately symathetic. I was around in the sixties. I don’t know which sixties you’re referring to . . . perhaps the 1860s? > [@starving artist](#): > > Many times around here I’ve seen it wished that people would just view gays as normal people who are just like everyone else, and behaving in deliberately outrageous and offensive ways is not the way to achieve that realization. Do you even know any gay people? Many of us are not “just like everyone else.” And ya know what? Plenty of straight people aren’t “just like everyone else” either. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336/66 "2008-12-23T05:24:10Z")
> [@Vox\_Imperatoris](#): > > No, you don’t have any more right to make fun of your “own” culture than any other. Yes, I do. I was baptized and raised Catholic. I didn’t come from some off-world colony. If I want to give my own faith some shit, it’s my right as a baptized & raised Catholic. The Pope can give me a call if he wants. I’ll gladly talk. ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336/67 "2008-12-23T05:33:39Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Yes, I do. I was baptized and raised Catholic. I didn’t come from some off-world colony. If I want to give my own faith some shit, it’s my right as a baptized & raised Catholic. The Pope can give me a call if he wants. I’ll gladly talk. Well, sure you do. You can also give all you want to the Jews, the Sunni Muslims, or the Wiccan community (provided you actually understand what you’re mocking). Just don’t be surprised when they get a little angry at you. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336/68 "2008-12-23T05:35:12Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I was around in the sixties. I don’t know which sixties you’re referring to . . . perhaps the 1860s? [1960s](http://www.mahablog.com/wp-content/uploads/correttaking.jpg) > [@panache45](#): > > Do you even know any gay people? Yep. Chauffered a couple of 'em around (and I do mean a couple; they live together) along with my sister and another friend from her office last weekend. I was pressed into service as the designated driver. They were cool guys. Raunchy (language) when drunk, but not in public. Slipped me $100 for my trouble, showed me around their house, invited me for breakfast the next day. And this week they invited me to a New Year’s Eve party at their house. And I’ve known quite a few gays over the years. Worked with some, and some were friends of friends or family. None, however, were beligerent about it. > [@panache45](#): > > Many of us are not “just like everyone else.” And ya know what? Plenty of straight people aren’t “just like everyone else” either. That’s right. No one is like everyone else. That’s why there are standards of behavior, so everyone can get along despite the fact that they’re not like everyone else. It’s a primary reason why I don’t scream and yell and flip people off in traffic or when they’re clogging aisles at the grocery store. And if I thought it would benefit me in getting them to get the hell out of my way, I doubt that deciding to scream and yell and flip them off would avail me much sympathy or cooperation. Which is why I don’t do it no matter how justified I might feel. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336/69 "2008-12-23T05:44:54Z")
> [@Vox\_Imperatoris](#): > > Well, sure you do. You can also give all you want to the Jews, the Sunni Muslims, or the Wiccan community (provided you actually understand what you’re mocking). Just don’t be surprised when they get a little angry at you. I’m not Jewish or Muslim. I guess I’m a little Wiccan mostly because a close friend is Wiccan and kinda slathered it on me and I didn’t resist. I am Catholic. You can’t take it away from me, nor tell me I can’t question it or give it shit. “They” can be angry at me all they want, but I’m them. Gays can’t let people call them “them.” Gays are you, and you have to deal with those of us who are you. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336/70 "2008-12-23T06:55:57Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So what? It doesn’t mean plenty of other people aren’t put off. I didn’t say they weren’t. All I said was, we only have evidence for this one organization that’s complained, and we have no idea exactly what this organization is or how many people belong to it. It could be that this has shocked and disturbed people throughout Holland and Northern Europe. Or it could be that the sum total of the upset is five little old ladies with a mimeograph machine in Dordrecht. I’ve no doubt that, once the story gets circulated, it’s going to piss of a whole lot of people in the US and Canada. But I’m not sure that a bunch of Dutch homos should be overly concerned with how their action play on a different continent. > [@](#): > > It’s long been my belief that the outrageous, in-your-face gay-rights parades in San Francisco circa 1980 did more to set back the issue of gay rights than any other thing (and coincidentally was responsible for much of the hatred gays suffered once AIDS reared its ugly head). They also created the impression of a specific type of a certain type of “gay lifestyle” that is continuing to cost gays voter support today that they would very much like to have when it comes to issues such as gay marriage, etc. I’d say that the entrenched homophobia of the American public has actually done the most damage to gay rights. These are the people, after all, who attack us for not acting straight enough, and then when we try to do something mainstream, like get married, attack us for daring to pretend like we’re straight. We can’t win with these people, because they don’t actually hate us for what we’re doing. They hate us for what we are, and they don’t care how we dress it up. So, we might as well do what we want, and worry more about attacking the source of that hatred, then trying to meet a standard of acceptable behavior that is going to constantly shift away from us the harder we try to achieve it. > [@](#): > > You don’t win friends, supporters and advocates among the oppostition by deliberately pissing people off. Are you still talking about gay pride parades? Because the point of those is not to deliberately piss people off. That’s simply an unavoidable side-effect of not being in the closet. > [@](#): > > Look at how civil rights advocates acted in the sixties. They were well-dressed, polite, non-violent and ultimately symathetic. People came to realize that blacks were no different than anyone else, and began to change their perception accordingly. Many times around here I’ve seen it wished that people would just view gays as normal people who are just like everyone else, and behaving in deliberately outrageous and offensive ways is not the way to achieve that realization. Yes, those Black Panthers were such nice, friendly, clean cut young men, weren’t they? > [@](#): > > Personally, I think it’s just a rebellious, feel-good gesture on the part of gays in order to publicly rub their opponent’s faces in images and behavior they find disgusting, and it’s stupid beyond measure. You know, during a gay pride parade, how straight people feel is just about the last thing on the mind of the people participating. Amazing as it might seem, gay pride parades are not, in fact, about straight people. > [@](#): > > The best way to achieve gay rights is to illustrate the basic humanity that they and we all share, and that aside from this one issue gays are no different than anyone else. I’ll be sure to mention your excellent advice at the next Global Queer Conspiracy meeting. ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336/71 "2008-12-23T07:02:26Z")
**Miller** , name one good thing the Black Panthers did for civil rights. It seems to me that all they did was perpetuate stereotypes by “proving the racists right”. Sound familiar? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336/72 "2008-12-23T07:05:26Z")
> [@Vox\_Imperatoris](#): > > **Miller** , name one good thing the Black Panthers did for civil rights. > > It seems to me that all they did was perpetuate stereotypes by “proving the racists right”. Sound familiar? Boy, did you ever miss the point. ---
**Author:** ![ignoramus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c6cbf5/32.png) [@ignoramus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ignoramus)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336/73 "2008-12-23T12:08:34Z")
> [@](#): > > “By portraying Joseph and Mary as homosexuals, a twisted human fantasy is being added to the history of the Bible,” Christians for Truth said in a statement ahead of the event. Oh the irony… ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336/74 "2008-12-23T12:27:11Z")
Just how many of the offended here were demanding that that Danish cartoonist a few years back apologize for his hurtful and insulting remarks toward Islam? ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336/75 "2008-12-23T12:57:29Z")
Let’s see… In the fifties, when gays were acting prim and proper and hiding everything they do, if they got discovered, they’d been thrown in jail or a mental institution. Today, when gays are having their pride parades and putting up nativity scenes, they don’t have to worry about being locked up. Today, in the institution where gays have to act all prim and proper–the military, gays have to constantly worry about losing their jobs. But all those civilians running around in the San Francisco pride parade don’t have to worry about losing their jobs because of California’s civil rights protection for sexual orientation. If I was a correlation=causation kind of guy prone to simplistic narratives, I’d say the evidence is clear. Party hard, gay people! ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336/76 "2008-12-23T13:05:55Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Party hard, gay people! And let me know where it is. I haven’t been to a good party in ages. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336/77 "2008-12-23T13:15:53Z")
If I was gay I wouldn’t be trying to get respect. I’d be fucking angry and disapointed with a lot of the world. You want gay people to show respect as it doesn’t help their cause to do something like this in a private club? Fuck that! They are in a lose/lose situation almost all the time. Your argument seems a lot like you just telling them to sit down and shut up and keep their ways to themsleves. That hasn’t helped them in the past. Gay people are not given the same rights as straight people in a lot of the western world. Respect would be the last thing I’d be thinking off. ---
**Author:** ![Mikkel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikkel/32/13151_2.png) [@Mikkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikkel)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336/78 "2008-12-23T13:28:54Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > They were cool guys. Raunchy (language) when drunk, but not in public. Wasn’t this in private? I’ll admit that a gay nightclub IS a public place, but how many straight devout Christians would see anything to disturb them? ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336/79 "2008-12-23T13:32:06Z")
> [@Mikkel](#): > > Wasn’t this in private? I’ll admit that a gay nightclub IS a public place, but how many straight devout Christians would see anything to disturb them? Yeah you wouldn’t want to do or say anything in public that pisses of or disturbs Christians > [@](#): > > Speaking on Monday, Pope Benedict said that saving humanity from homosexual or transsexual behaviour was as important as protecting the environment. > **[BBC NEWS | Europe | Gay groups angry at Pope remarks](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7797269.stm)** > > Gay groups and activists react angrily after Pope Benedict XVI says mankind needs to be saved from a blurring of gender. Respect? Yeah, right. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336/80 "2008-12-23T13:45:34Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > And I’ve known quite a few gays over the years. Worked with some, and some were friends of friends or family. So… some of your best friends are gay? I have, in my hand, a list of the non-snarky opponents of this gay-themed Nativity scene in Amsterdam: **The Flying Dutchman neutron star ethilrist Vinyl Turnip Merkwurdigliebe Vox Imperatoris Starving Artist** Two questions for you all: Are you now, or have you ever been, gay? Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of a gay rights organization? If the answer to either the second question, or both questions, is ‘no’ - where do you get the right to criticize what gays and lesbians, or any oppressed group for that matter, do? If you’re not out there alongside them in support of their fight for acceptance, you’re armchair quarterbacking at best. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amsterdam-pro-gay-idiots/478336.md?page=5)