# AMTRACK ACELA Grounded For want of Brake rotors? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 27, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amtrack-acela-grounded-for-want-of-brake-rotors/301424 "2005-04-27T19:52:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amtrack-acela-grounded-for-want-of-brake-rotors/301424/1 "2005-04-27T19:52:15Z")
AMTRACK has suspended service on its high-speed 'Acela" train., on the Boston-NYC run. The decision came about because of cracks found in the brake rotors of the locomotive. Now comes the kicker-the brake rotors are only mfg. by one foundry , and that plant is capacity limited. because of this, the trains are stopped till June at the earliest. I have a few problems with this: -brake rotors are not 'rocket science"-should’t any local machine shop be able to turn some rotors from castings? -does AMTRAK, with its armies of consultants, maintainence experts, etc., ever plan on replacing wear-out parts? Finally, how long have high speed trains been running in Europe and japan-shouldn’t a problem like this have been solved long ago? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amtrack-acela-grounded-for-want-of-brake-rotors/301424/2 "2005-04-27T21:54:38Z")
Read 'em quick, before the TIMES starts charging for 'em! Great overview from this Sunday: [Acela, built to be railroad’s savoir, bedevils Amtrak at every turn](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/24/national/24acela.html?) and [Maker overestimated brakes](http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Amtrak-Acela.html). > [@](#): > > Amtrak’s chief operating officer Bill Crosbie said last week that the brake part is unique to the Acela and there was no active production line casting them. Crosbie said the companies had fewer than 70 disc brakes in stock. > > Gagnon said the number of discs on hand when the Acela problem arose was ‘‘sufficient for normal maintenance purposes on the Acela fleet.’’ > > ‘‘We understand that this is not a normal circumstance and we are working with our suppliers to obtain more brake discs and get the fleet back in service as quickly as possible,’’ she said. And from the first article, here’s why they didn’t just use Yurpeen trains: > [@](#): > > In 1992, Amtrak began testing two European trains between Washington and New York: the Intercity Express, or ICE train, from Germany and the X2000 from Sweden. Some Amtrak officials thought the X2000 was well suited for the Northeast Corridor because of a tilting mechanism that reduced centrifugal force on passengers when the train sped around curves. The line between Boston and New York is among the most winding in the country. > > But the Swedish company decided not to bid on the contract because it did not want to make the changes required by federal regulators to adapt its lightweight European train to America, said a former senior Amtrak official who asked not to be identified because he has taken another job in the transportation industry… > [@](#): > > Unlike European and Japanese high-speed trains, most of which run on dedicated lines, Amtrak shares the Northeast Corridor with bulky, slow freight trains. The railroad agency has long required that passenger trains be heavier than European ones to withstand crashes. And also, as it always does, Canadian perfidy comes into it: 😃 > [@](#): > > The design problems, breakdowns, production delays and litigation have caused some rail experts to question why Amtrak selected a bid that involved an essentially new design. > > One reason, current and former Amtrak officials say, was that the ideal off-the-shelf train did not exist. But another reason was money: the French-Canadian consortium offered the lowest bid and best financing deal, one heavily subsidized by the Canadian government. And cutting costs was paramount to Amtrak. The TIMES won a Pulitzer for its coverage of railroad-crossing accidents, and it’s been pretty good at coverage of Amtrak too. I’d check their archves. The NY Observer and the various railfan magazines also watch it closely. It’s an interesting if sad story for those of us who love trains. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2005, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amtrack-acela-grounded-for-want-of-brake-rotors/301424/3 "2005-04-28T09:29:03Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Finally, how long have high speed trains been running in Europe and japan-shouldn’t a problem like this have been solved long ago? 😕 Don’t you remember the recent train wreck in Japan and Sri Lanka. We have to take extra precautions. I don’t think we’re out of the clear yet and we still have to fix many problems. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2005, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amtrack-acela-grounded-for-want-of-brake-rotors/301424/4 "2005-04-28T10:29:30Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Don’t you remember the recent train wreck in Japan and Sri Lanka. We have to take extra precautions. I don’t think we’re out of the clear yet and we still have to fix many problems. The TGV and Shinkansen systems have operated for years without major trouble (the recent Japanese accident involved a commuter train, and the Sri Lanka accident a non-high-speed train and a bus at a level crossing). The German first- and second generation ICE trains are also pretty reliable (after the flawed wheel design has been corrected; the tilting types still have troubles). A main factor in slowing down the introduction of high speed rail are IMO that operators want custom-designed, domestically-built trains. For example the German rail systems could have avoided years of teething troubles in high- and medium speed tilting trainsets if we’d have just bought Fiat’s Pendolino trains. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2005, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amtrack-acela-grounded-for-want-of-brake-rotors/301424/5 "2005-04-28T11:09:03Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Don’t you remember the recent train wreck in Japan and Sri Lanka. We have to take extra precautions. I don’t think we’re out of the clear yet and we still have to fix many problems. I don’t believe that either or those accidents involved high-speed trains. IIRC, in the 40 years that they’ve been operating, no one has died in a shinkansen crash. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2005, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amtrack-acela-grounded-for-want-of-brake-rotors/301424/6 "2005-04-28T11:25:25Z")
The only fatalities on the TGV have been due to a vehicle on the track and a bomb. There has been a Shinkansen derailment, which had the potential to be serious. But quite frankly, if airplanes could boast a record of only one major accident due to mechanical failure in several decades, and one near-miss, wouldn’t it be rather impressive? ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amtrack-acela-grounded-for-want-of-brake-rotors/301424/7 "2005-04-30T04:42:47Z")
Which raises the interesting question of the relative safety of rail vs. air travel (accidents/injuries/deaths per passenger-mile). I don’t have the figures. I assume both are fairly good. Because of the normally heavy publicity for airline disasters, I think there tends to be a presumption that trains are safer. Anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amtrack-acela-grounded-for-want-of-brake-rotors/301424/8 "2005-04-30T06:04:21Z")
From what I recall (I can’t find statistics now), it depends how you measure it: on deaths per passenger-mile, air travel is the safest. But rail pips it if you use deaths per passenger-_hour_. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amtrack-acela-grounded-for-want-of-brake-rotors/301424/9 "2005-04-30T19:58:35Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > Unlike European and Japanese high-speed trains, most of which run on dedicated lines, Amtrak shares the Northeast Corridor with bulky, slow freight trains. Maybe that’s the problem right there. If we’re going to have HSR in the U.S., they’re going to have to do it right and build the system its own special tracks, parallel to but separate from the existing tracks. Can anyone see any reason (apart from the most obvious, cost) not to do this? ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amtrack-acela-grounded-for-want-of-brake-rotors/301424/10 "2005-04-30T20:27:51Z")
Brake rotors on passenger train equipment are cast onto the axle and machined into shape. No amount of bolts can handle the stresses induced if the rotors were set up like those on an automobile. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amtrack-acela-grounded-for-want-of-brake-rotors/301424/11 "2005-04-30T21:10:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Maybe that’s the problem right there. If we’re going to have HSR in the U.S., they’re going to have to do it right and build the system its own special tracks, parallel to but separate from the existing tracks. Can anyone see any reason (apart from the most obvious, cost) not to do this? You’d want to build a completely new track, on a new alignment. Going parallel to existing tracks would have only minimal benefits, while causing a big problem for the speed of operation of the trains. The intention with Acela seems to match the British Pendolino, in that it is running semi-high speed trains on pre-existing tracks. I don’t understand why that automatically necessitates the Acela units being heavier - it sounds more like an over-cautious use of legislation to me. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amtrack-acela-grounded-for-want-of-brake-rotors/301424/12 "2005-05-01T00:18:58Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > You’d want to build a completely new track, on a new alignment. Going parallel to existing tracks would have only minimal benefits, while causing a big problem for the speed of operation of the trains. Well, I was thinking of using an existing right-of-way because it would require no additional land acquisition or demolition of structures. By the same token, HSR might use the right-of-way of an interstate highway. Even with eminent domain powers, it can’t be easy to acquire a completely new right-of-way in a heavily settled industrial region like the BosWash corridor. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amtrack-acela-grounded-for-want-of-brake-rotors/301424/13 "2005-05-03T14:32:38Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t believe that either or those accidents involved high-speed trains. IIRC, in the 40 years that they’ve been operating, no one has died in a shinkansen crash. Isn’t the Shinkansen line dedicated solely to it? If there’s nothing else on it…