# An AIDS vaccine. Is it worth it. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 9, 2002, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990 "2002-07-09T00:16:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990/61 "2002-07-11T20:15:30Z")
So, let me ask- what **is** an appropriate expenditure of tax money? Fire? pshaw - I haven’t personally had a fire, don’t need that. Police? well, but only a part time force, since I rarely need that. Research into heart disease? Hey, it doesn’t run in **my** family. The arguement that you’re trying to support here isn’t new. Many people in the past have suggested that tax money should only be spent on things that they personally find worthwhile. No welfare for individuals (but farm subsidies, well that’s ok etc.) Our system has a variety of checks and balances. No one individual will ever agree with absolutely every expenditure of their tax money, and it’s unrealistic to think it would happen (in any society comprising more than one individual). deal. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990/62 "2002-07-11T20:22:43Z")
_dreamy sigh_ **wring** and I "pshaw"ing the same thing… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990/63 "2002-07-11T20:24:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\*Yeah, you’re Mother Theresa. Let me call the Vatican to start the sainthood proceedings. > > I wonder how many other people who “asked for it” are undeserving of life in your book? To invoke Godwin, I wonder how many Jews “asked for it” by their choice of religion when Hitler gassed them? After all, they could have easily changed their behavior, right? > > :rolleyes: > > Esprix \*\* I’m sure if you really, really put your vast mental resources to the test, you could come up with a more stupid comparison, but frankly, I don’t know what it could be. Obviously the evil AIDS Stormtroopers are going around, rounding people up and forcing them to take HIV injections. It’s surely not that certain people’s behavior is risky and makes them more likely to contract the disease… :rolleyes: Yes, I think that a vaccine would be worth it, but as one of the “bad guys” already pointed out, as long as there is no cure or vaccine, the so-called “moral/behavioral solution” is the only one. So why do you bitch every time somebody who is not a doctor says that monogamy and not shooting drugs are the best risk-reduction factors? Especially since that’s exactly the same thing doctors say…does that make them gay-bashers? Judgemental assholes? Hate-filled bigots? Or maybe they’re people who recognize that stupid and irresponsible behavior can have dire consequences. Give me a break. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990/64 "2002-07-11T20:27:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tim R. Mortiss \* > **It is robbing Peter to pay Paul. Usually works, though, when Paul is sufficiently louder, or has more votes, than Peter.** No, it’s more like robbing Peter to cure Paul, so Paul’s disease that makes his wang fall off doesn’t infect Peter or Timmy. ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990/65 "2002-07-11T20:42:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > \*\* > So why do you bitch every time somebody who is not a doctor says that monogamy and not shooting drugs are the best risk-reduction factors? Especially since that’s exactly the same thing doctors say…does that make them gay-bashers? Judgemental assholes? Hate-filled bigots? Or maybe they’re people who recognize that stupid and irresponsible behavior can have dire consequences. > Give me a break. \*\* No…I haven’t seen many people doing this in this thread. It’s when people say that we shouldn’t try to find a cure BECAUSE it’s ‘only happening to people in Africa and homosexuals’…then we may start thinking people are ‘hate filled bigots’(but then I haven’t seen people saying that either so I don’t know exactly why you’re saying these things). The point has been made that currently aids is predominately passed through irresponsible behavior. Shout it to the heavens, I hear you on this. BUT, to then move from that to ‘and die because I see no reason to spend money on treatment for this’ is a whole 'nother matter. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990/66 "2002-07-11T20:52:15Z")
Oh **Tars** , let’s not get all **literal** with everything! **Joe Cool** : > [@](#): > > So why do you bitch every time somebody who is not a doctor says that monogamy and not shooting drugs are the best risk-reduction factors? Um, lesse… this “moral solution” is wildly unrealistic that no society since recorded history has been able to implement it? Nah, that can’t be relevent. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990/67 "2002-07-11T20:56:22Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Tim R. Mortiss_ > **I’ll make my point real simple for ya: Spending MY money does not make YOU compassionate. And vice versa…Timmy** But for the purpose of debate, surely you can assume that everyone in this thread pays taxes, yes? In which case it’s spending OUR money, making US compassionate if we spend it for the general good. No-one’s saying “let’s send in the shock troops, get Mr. Mortiss to pay for some drug research,” it’s a case of having a communal pot of money, and expressing an opinion on how it might best be spent. How many times can it be said that AIDS research is not the personal agenda of a couple of junkies and some gay men, but is something which will benefit the vast majority of the human race? ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990/68 "2002-07-11T21:22:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by erislover \* > Oh **Tars** , let’s not get all **literal** with everything! Cool, i’ll make this response all cryptic and metaphorical! The eagle soars as the fires burn, but gorilla teeth eclispe the badger’s nose, firefly, firefly! ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990/69 "2002-07-11T21:35:50Z")
> [@](#): > > _I said_ > this “moral solution” is wildly unrealistic that no society since recorded history has been able to implement it? As this will certainly elicit a “cite?” call, I withdraw the comment. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990/70 "2002-07-11T21:38:00Z")
Thank you, **Vivien** and **eris**. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990/71 "2002-07-11T21:54:35Z")
just FYI, **mobo85** brings us news of HIV positive muppets [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=125070](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=125070) ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990/72 "2002-07-11T22:37:08Z")
Incidentally, though I did withdraw the comment, I am not wondering about it. Has there been any society of appreciable size that has been able to enforce any sort of morality efficiently? Hell, we can’t even get rid of something as obvious as murder, you know? so I don’t completely withdraw the comment, but instead sort of toss it out there: yeah, it is a solution (and if things were different they wouldn’t be the same), but is it really a reasonable one? Especially taking into account my comments here: > [@](#): > > all humans everywhere only had sex with one person ever, and if the monogomous relationship failed then they would not have sex with anyone else again, and if all blood gathered were screened and cleared for HIV, and if all persons who had HIV were unable to bear children… I mean, limiting a person to one sexual partner **ever, for life**? That’s “non-risky” behavior that is reasonable? I’m sorry… I can’t buy it for the life of me. **Esprix** : I gotta say, after my embarassing tango on the whole use of the word “gay” with you… _anytime_. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990/73 "2002-07-11T22:39:08Z")
_Not_ wondering about it?? Um… I mean, I am _now_ wondering about it. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990/74 "2002-07-11T23:11:14Z")
Yes, its worth it. Nobody ever asked to get it! vanilla, an AIDS widow ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990/75 "2002-07-11T23:29:40Z")
And you know what? That’s what it comes down to - yes, we can all take reasonable precautions and still maintain our _joie de vie_, no matter what form it takes (we are, after all, granted life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness). In the end, however, nobody ever asked to get it. By saying, “Your behavior equates to _deserving_ it” you are saying (a) they asked for it; and (b) they are not worthy of compassion because of their behavior (which begs [c] your behavior is immoral). Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Netbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71e660/32.png) [@Netbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Netbrian)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990/76 "2002-07-12T02:44:42Z")
I’d like to throw in my comment that you do have a say where your money goes. Tis called a “vote”. You may say you voted against people that would support this. Well, most people didn’t. Do you still want to withdraw your money? Why not just decide that your money went to be spent on things you appreciate, and them bleedin’ heart liberals are paying for HIV research? Works much nicer that way. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990/77 "2002-07-12T04:25:46Z")
What interests me about this thread is how the OP seems to have placed a dollar figure on human life. From the position that spending X number of dollars to save people who don’t deserve it (paraphrasing, of course) is a waste of money, I believe you can logically get to X number of dollars is worth it to save people who _do_ deserve it. I’m curious as to how you decide who deserves it and what the dollar figure is that makes the balance sheet equal out when weighing human lives against money for vaccines. One deserving human saved? Two? Three hundred? One million? Your mother? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990/78 "2002-07-12T04:29:57Z")
Um, I just realized it might appear that I support the idea that some people deserve AIDS. I do not. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990/79 "2002-07-12T18:50:01Z")
erislover: > [@](#): > > \*\*I mean, limiting a person to one sexual partner ever, for life? That’s “non-risky” behavior that is reasonable? I’m sorry… I can’t buy it for the life of me. \*\* So basically what you’re saying is that because you don’t like the nature of the solution, society has to pay the price for your knowingly putting your health at risk? I don’t like having to wear a seatbelt. It’s inconvenient and uncomfortable. But if I crash my car, I’ll be glad I did wear it. I’m sorry you don’t like the behavioral solution, but at this point it is the only one. If you choose to ignore it and catch AIDS, it’s nobody’s fault but your own, and you don’t get to expect me to pay for research to cure the consequences that you reaped for your irresponsible actions. Esprix, nobody is saying anybody deserves AIDS. But At the same time, there is no excuse for anybody this day and age to get it through sex. We all know the dangers and how to minimize the risks. If you are running around screwing a bunch of people without taking the obvious precautions, you ARE asking for it. So you (generic) can’t whine about society not caring about your plight, if you go out there and take that risk KNOWING BETTER. If I’m screwing around on my roof without proper safety precautions and I fall and break my neck, is it your responsibility to do something about it? Or am I reaping what I sowed? Do you petition the government for a chicken in every pot and a safety railing on every roof? Or do you shake your head and say “stupid ass, you should have been more careful”? Again, I do support research for a cure, but that’s because I think it would be a good thing, not because I feel obligated to rescue people who basically did it to themselves. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990/80 "2002-07-12T19:16:24Z")
> [@](#): > > So basically what you’re saying is that because you don’t like the nature of the solution, society has to pay the price for your knowingly putting your health at risk? I’m saying a solution that cannot be implimented is not a solution. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-aids-vaccine-is-it-worth-it/117990.md?page=5)