Please stop calling people “penny haters”.
What term would you prefer?
How would that work? Here in Philly, all businesses within city limits are required by law to accept cash. A case could be made for a limit on how many pennies could be used per cash transaction. But, if somebody is offering bills, quarters and just a few pennies what grounds would a business have to refuse payment?
I understand why this is the law in Philadelphia. It is to protect disadvantaged people who don’t have a relationship with a bank. But would a Philadelphia merchant have to accept a one hundred dollar bill for a small purchase of just a couple of bucks? Probably not but I am not familiar with the details of the law. On the other hand, would it really be that big of a burden for a Philadelphia merchant to be required to accept handful of pennies every now and then?
That was my question to you. You said
How would a total refusal to accept pennies work? They are legal tender made and backed by the US government. IIRC there are precedents for refusing payment of a large debt in only pennies. How would businesses go about refusing a cash payment involving a reasonable amount of pennies?
From the website of the Federal Reserve System
Is it legal for a business in the United States to refuse cash as a form of payment?
There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise.
As I said, under a law passed a few years ago any business operating within Philadelphia must accept cash. They can accept other forms of payment as well. But they must accept cash.
Given that they must accept cash, what grounds do they have to refuse a payment that includes a reasonable amount of pennies?
Ninjaed by Dewey_FInn. Presenting cash to a merchant is merely making an offer to purchase. No debt has been created at this point.
Philadelphia might be an exception.
Define “cash”. What specifically does the law/ordinance say? Legal tender of the United States is what the United States defines as legal tender. The US Government could simple declare pennies as no longer legal tender as of such-and-such date and there really isn’t anything Philadelphia could do about it.
The U.S. has never done this with any of its government-issued money. I think this would be a bad idea because of what effect it might have on the reputation of the U.S. Dollar in the international community.
I would have to look up the wording of the law. I’m guessing local papers had more information than the local nightly news. But, I haven’t bothered to read the Philadelphia Inquirer for decades now.
The government could declare pennies as no longer legal tender. I am unaware of the US government ever having done such a thing. It would also set a terrible precedent. People would wonder what type of currency the government would declare invalid next.
ETA
Ninja’d!
Which seems to have been your belief from the start of this thread. Do you have any cites or information that suggest getting rid of a tiny-value coin (as other countries, like Canada, have already done), will actually make other countries doubt the stability of the U.S. dollar?
Would it though? If the government gave notice and said “turn your pennies at your bank and they will redeem them, but they are no longer considered legal tender for purchases, etc.”, would that really cause doubt about the value of the dollar? Other countries have done it without crashing into anarchy.
ETA: Ninja’d. That’s two in a row for this thread.
Has Canada declared any currency no longer valid or has it simply stopped minting more? I am asking as I genuinely don’t know. OTTOMH we had three failed attempts at a dollar coin in the US. The government simply stopped minting them. They are still worth face value as legal currency.
There’s no need to declare that pennies are no longer legal tender. They could just stop producing them.
A quick search turned up the Phiiladelphia law in question. § 9-1132. Cashless Retail Prohibition.
As they would be in my scenario. It’s just that only certain entities would be required to accept them. Others could by choice, just like I can choose to accept chickens for payment, but I’m not, generally speaking, allowed to require chickens for payment.
In the case of the Canadian penny, it’s still apparently valid currency. It’s just that it’s no longer minted, and no longer actively placed into circulation by the Royal Canadian Mint.
However, Wikipedia indicates that the Currency Act now established that making a payment in pennies is now only considered “legal tender” for amounts of no more than 25 cents (so, stores are no longer obligated to accept someone trying to use hundreds or thousands of pennies on a single transaction).
I don’t have any cites for this. However, unlike the Canadian Dollar, the Vanuatu Vatu, the Argentine Peso, and many other currencies, the U.S. is one of the most dominant currencies in international financial transactions. Why take a chance with tarnishing its reputation, even just a little bit, when there is a simple fix to the penny problem.