# An American city that is 90% of a nonwhite race: Diverse or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 11, 2015, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524 "2015-08-11T04:23:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524/1 "2015-08-11T04:23:55Z")
Let’s say, hypothetically, that there were a city in America that consisted of 90% inhabitants of one single, non-white race. Perhaps 90% Hispanic, or 90% Asian, or 90% Arab, or 90% African-American, etc. Would you describe this city as being very racially diverse, because it is predominantly minority in a mostly-white country (the USA,) or would you describe it as lacking diversity, because it is overwhelmingly of one single race only? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524/2 "2015-08-11T05:26:41Z")
In general no. Diversity requires a mix of cultures. However there is certainly room for diversity given the broad categories listed. For example Asia is very diverse, there are numerous very distinct Asian cultures. If a city as 90% Korean I might not consider it diverse. If it was 25% Korean, 20% Japanese, 25% Vietnamese and 20% Chinese. I would think that to be rather diverse. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524/3 "2015-08-11T05:38:31Z")
Plus, of course, while the city might not be diverse _in itself_, it could certainly contribute to the diversity of the region in which it is located. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524/4 "2015-08-11T11:38:28Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524/5 "2015-08-11T12:17:23Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Plus, of course, while the city might not be diverse _in itself_, it could certainly contribute to the diversity of the region in which it is located. This is how I would describe my current area - Gary, Indiana is about 85% black (pretty close to your 90%). I would not describe the city proper as diverse because it’s mostly one ethnicity, but Lake County, Indiana is about 25% black, so without Gary the county would be less diverse. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524/6 "2015-08-11T16:31:31Z")
For me, diversity means variety in ideas, philosophies, lifestyles, jobs, hobbies, and so forth. I think that a city can be extremely diverse, even if everybody is of the same ethnic group. A city can also have many ethnic groups and fail to be diverse. As for racial diversity, for the same reason that **boytyperanma** said. The racial categories that the American government uses were established artificially so they could create affirmative action. The concept of Hispanic as a race, for instance, has no basis in biology or history. Traditionally Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Peruvians, and dozens of other groups would have never even considered viewing themselves as a single race. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524/7 "2015-08-11T16:41:08Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > The racial categories that the American government uses were established artificially so they could create affirmative action. The concept of Hispanic as a race, for instance, has no basis in biology or history. Traditionally Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Peruvians, and dozens of other groups would have never even considered viewing themselves as a single race. What are the other categories used, and how did the American government establish them artificially? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524/8 "2015-08-11T16:46:32Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > In general no. Diversity requires a mix of cultures. > > However there is certainly room for diversity given the broad categories listed. For example Asia is very diverse, there are numerous very distinct Asian cultures. If a city as 90% Korean I might not consider it diverse. If it was 25% Korean, 20% Japanese, 25% Vietnamese and 20% Chinese. I would think that to be rather diverse. So if a city is 100% white, but it’s a mix of German, Irish, Swedish, Dutch, etc., is it diverse? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524/9 "2015-08-11T16:50:46Z")
I suspect I know what you’re getting at. Sometimes the word “diverse” is used to refer to nonwhite people. I’ve heard schools that were 95%+ African American students referred to as having a diverse population. IMO it’s a euphemism used by people who are scared to use words like black or African American, for fear of being called racist. It’s a little like “urban” or “inner-city” used as euphemisms for black, or like “ethnic hair products” used to mean “hair products for nonwhite people.” I dislike this usage. There’s real value to having a diverse population in a school, a city, a neighborhood, a government. Calling something “diverse” when it’s just majority-minority confuses the issue. (And no, I don’t have citations; if you’ve never encountered this usage, that’s fine.) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524/10 "2015-08-11T17:01:57Z")
A city’s racial makeup says little to nothing about diversity. Take a 90% Asian city. Of those Asians, 100% are from the same village in China. Not diverse. But if 10% are from Vietnam, 10% from South Korea, 10% from Japan, 10% from Thailand, 10% are Hmong, etc., and they practice five different religions and speak twenty-two languages, that would be diverse. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524/11 "2015-08-11T17:02:03Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > What are the other categories used, and how did the American government establish them artificially? [Here’s a copy of a form](http://www.shrm.org/templatestools/samples/hrforms/articles/pages/cms_019910.aspx) that’s used to report data to the American government. The categories are: > [@](#): > > \_\_\_ Hispanic or Latino: A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race. > > \_\_\_ White (Not Hispanic or Latino): A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East or North Africa. > > \_\_\_ Black or African American (Not Hispanic or Latino): A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa. > > \_\_\_ Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander (Not Hispanic or Latino): A person having origins in any of the peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa or other Pacific Islands. > > \_\_\_ Asian (Not Hispanic or Latino): A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia or the Indian Subcontinent, including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand and Vietnam. > > \_\_\_ American Indian or Alaska Native (Not Hispanic or Latino): A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America) and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment. > > \_\_\_ Two or more races (Not Hispanic or Latino): All persons who identify with more than one of the above five races. When I say that the government’s definition are artificial, I mean that they’re not based in biology or history. Historically, it’s certainly not true that the American government always divided up races in this way, and it’s certainly not true that other governments divide up races this way. Biologically, there’s nothing that separates each race from others. The definition of Hispanic, for instance, includes people who are white, black, Native American, and any combination of those. It’s based on “Spanish culture”, not biological origin. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524/12 "2015-08-11T17:07:29Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > A city’s racial makeup says little to nothing about diversity. Take a 90% Asian city. > > Of those Asians, 100% are from the same village in China. Not diverse. > > But if 10% are from Vietnam, 10% from South Korea, 10% from Japan, 10% from Thailand, 10% are Hmong, etc., and they practice five different religions and speak twenty-two languages, that would be diverse. What if they only spoke 21 different languages? I’m just kidding. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524/13 "2015-08-11T17:10:21Z")
Thank you for the link. > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > [Here’s a copy of a form](http://www.shrm.org/templatestools/samples/hrforms/articles/pages/cms_019910.aspx) that’s used to report data to the American government. The categories are: > When I say that the government’s definition are artificial, I mean that they’re not based in biology or history. Historically, it’s certainly not true that the American government always divided up races in this way, and it’s certainly not true that other governments divide up races this way. You’ve altered a point between your statement and your backing it up - namely, that it’s “not based in… history” beforehand, but then you go on to talk solely about _governmental_ history. What about non-governmental history? You pointed out that, traditionally speaking, many groups who fall under the category of “Hispanic” would “have never even considered viewing themselves as a single race.” Is the same true of the other categories your link includes, for the groups included in that category? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524/14 "2015-08-11T17:11:00Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > So if a city is 100% white, but it’s a mix of German, Irish, Swedish, Dutch, etc., is it diverse? Possibly. If there is distinct display of the various racial heritages, yes. If they are all Americanized and conform to a single culture, no. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524/15 "2015-08-11T17:17:57Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > What about non-governmental history? You pointed out that, traditionally speaking, many groups who fall under the category of “Hispanic” would “have never even considered viewing themselves as a single race.” Is the same true of the other categories your link includes, for the groups included in that category? I think it’s pretty obvious that an Indian (person from India) and a Chinese person would not be considered the same race. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524/16 "2015-08-11T17:28:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think it’s pretty obvious that an Indian (person from India) and a Chinese person would not be considered the same race. Most likely. What do you think about the other categories on the list? **ITR** , btw, would it be possible to include the question that goes with that segment of the form? I’m afraid it’s behind a sign-up, which I’m not greatly interested in doing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524/17 "2015-08-11T17:34:39Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Most likely. What do you think about the other categories on the list? If you look at “Black”, it specifically ask for people from different racial groups. Eskimo and American Indian are easily considered different racial groups. The groups included in “white” could or could not be considered different racial groups, since North Africa is included as well as the Middle East. Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander is also a mixed race category sine Melanesians and Polynesians are distinct. That about covers it. Every single category contains different races, or different groups of people that could reasonably called different races. The one category that is most consistent is “white”, since that is generally equated with “caucasian” and the people so NA/ME are usually considered “caucasian” in racial categories. As a “social construct”, though, many of those people are “Brown”, not “White”. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524/18 "2015-08-11T17:38:23Z")
That all seems reasonable to me, which is why I’m interested in seeing what the question is that prompts those options, since **ITR Champion** referred them being the government’s “racial categories”. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524/19 "2015-08-11T17:40:38Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you look at “Black”, it specifically ask for people from different racial groups. The irony being of course that this would cause people to be categorized as being in the same racial group who obviously are nothing of the sort. An African-American descended from Americans slaves going back to the early 18th century and, say, a Somali who just arrived ten years ago will both be classified as “black” despite the fact that they are genetically and culturally as different from one another as Taylor Swift and Sadahuru Oh are. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524/20 "2015-08-11T17:42:49Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > That all seems reasonable to me, which is why I’m interested in seeing what the question is that prompts those options, since **ITR Champion** referred them being the government’s “racial categories”. It’s what the US government uses on the [census form.](http://census.gov/topics/population/race/about.html) Seems like as good a reference document as any, and better than most. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-american-city-that-is-90-of-a-nonwhite-race-diverse-or-not/727524.md?page=2)