# An annual reminder for all you moms **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 17, 2013, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534 "2013-12-17T06:14:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534/161 "2013-12-19T19:16:07Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > She didn’t specifically ask for it. Which is, amazingly, why I wrote the bolded part. No, but you brought it up as an explanation of how impossible it is to pick out something that _was_ asked for. It was kind of silly _in that context_\*, is what I was trying to point out. And I still honestly, legitimately don’t understand what’s so hard about looking at a necklace and saying “Yes, that looks like so and so” or “No, that doesn’t look like so and so.” Especially when so and so is your spouse. I mean, even if you’ve never paid any attention before, you can look at her for a few days, or look through her jewelry box and find out what kind of metal she prefers, whether she likes stones or enamel or just shaped metals, whether she trends blingy or antiquey or super-modern or what. That alone is going to at least get you in the right ballpark, ya know? \*I am distinctly not saying it’s a silly concern in general, so let’s not start any of _that_, okay? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534/162 "2013-12-19T19:32:45Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I think you and I don’t have the same definition of “science,” let alone “a pleasing shape.” Here you go - science on a “pleasing shape” - [Golden ratio - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534/163 "2013-12-19T19:38:40Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Here you go - science on a “pleasing shape” - [Golden ratio - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio) I think you and I also have a different definition of science. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534/164 "2013-12-19T20:05:51Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > . . . > Just because your SO throws away your catalogs instead of looking through them for the pages you bent to know what to get you does not = 50% or more of men do this. > > **My SO doesn’t do catalogs or magazines. So I guess I don’t have to get her anything for christmas. Being a woman she should know to get a lot of cataolgs and bend pages so I know what to get her and since she doesn’t then apparantly she doesn’t want a christmas present and I shall respect her wishes**. No, you are mistaken. If your SO doesn’t do catalogs or magazines, then that means you are in the category with the **50% or less** of people \*_to whom that post does not apply._ \*\*Nice try and all, but I’m pretty sure your SO won’t be accepting the excuse you are trying to carve out for yourself. 😉 \*Seriously, what the frack is so difficult about this? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534/165 "2013-12-19T20:11:29Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > This. This. This. My mother was a champion at doing things to herself to make her life miserable, so other people would feel sorry for her. > > She took the “I don’t get presents” thing to the point where not only did my father not get her anything, his mother didn’t either even though she gave presents to us kids. Those presents, BTW, had a slight tendency to disappear themselves around the time we all went back to school after the break. :rolleyes: Uh, wow. I’m amazed that you quoted a fantastic paragraph that takes your attitude to task like it’s 100% in agreement with you. Lemme bold the key parts you seem to have glossed over: > [@Incubus](#): > > I think this whole ‘Moms don’t get presents’ trope is form of Mom-martyrdom (Momyrdom? Mommydom?) where **a Mom is unhappy and exhausted** from making so many things a priority, that she feels guilty for wanting anything for herself. That, or **she is so used to getting passed over by everyone in her family** that **setting equal expectations for them is just setting herself up for disappointment.** Saying Moms dont get presents is **a way for them to rationalize how they are getting mistreated in their own family** , even if its in subtle ways (lack of appreciation, low priority, passivity of spouse). Are there people (moms, if we want to be specific) in the world that this doesn’t apply to? Sure. Are they possibly just assholes who intentionally create no-win situations to make their family feel bad? Sure. Your mom may well be one of those jerks. If so, that really sucks and I’m sorry that you have to deal with that frustration and aggravation every damn year. But what is absolute _bullshit_ is to post an OP like yours, where you take your mother’s motivations and ascribe them to “all you moms” who say or imply that moms don’t get presents. **Incubus** ’s entire damn post is condemning the very attitude(s) you and others have expressed\*. Yet somehow you read it as an endorsement. - Basically blaming the mom/wife for saying a variation of the above and/or getting upset at not getting a gift or getting a shitty gift. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534/166 "2013-12-19T20:18:14Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > \*Seriously, what the frack is so difficult about this? 😕 Probably because this catalog trick is actually super rare and you’re acting like its widespread. The people in this thread are trying to tell you that it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534/167 "2013-12-19T20:19:37Z")
And by the way, I _also_ have a mom who pulls the passive aggressive “I don’t want _anything_!” when we ask her (in a way that makes clear we are excited to get her gifts she’ll love, not “durrr, hey, do you want to get a gift, _too_???”), especially if she’s been in a crappy mood. So I understand how aggravating it can be. But I would never then believe that _everyone_ who has said that is being passive aggressive. And even though it IS aggravating to hear it, it also makes me sad because it’s an indication that my mom is sad, frustrated or depressed about something (doesn’t need to be family-related). Completely ignoring that fact to make it all about ME and MY frustration would be really self-absorbed. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534/168 "2013-12-19T20:21:03Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > No, you are mistaken. If your SO doesn’t do catalogs or magazines, then that means you are in the category with the **50% or less** of people \*_to whom that post does not apply._ \*\*Nice try and all, but I’m pretty sure your SO won’t be accepting the excuse you are trying to carve out for yourself. > > 😉 > > \*Seriously, what the frack is so difficult about this? 😕 All I know is I have catalogs all over the house and frequently point out neat stuff to my husband and I am never hinting. I’m really not. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534/169 "2013-12-20T00:39:23Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > But what is absolute _bullshit_ is to post an OP like yours, where you take your mother’s motivations and ascribe them to “all you moms” who say or imply that moms don’t get presents. I realize this board is mostly men, but there are women who post here, and some of them are mothers. I post on another board that’s over 90% women, and a HUGE percentage of them have the same issue I mentioned in the OP. :rolleyes: One thing that’s pretty consistent is that they go all-out in decorating the house, baking cookies, buying gifts, etc. but their husbands do absolutely nothing, nor do the kids if they’re old enough to help, and don’t get them any presents either. Yes, the kids have asked why Mommy doesn’t get presents and doesn’t have a stocking, and more than once, this has been the explanation they gave because they felt it was less devastating to them than some variation of “Your daddy only cares about me because I’m a live-in maid, babysitter, and sex partner” - and no, he didn’t suddenly become this way after they had all their children, either. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534/170 "2013-12-20T00:43:23Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I realize this board is mostly men, but there are women who post here, and some of them are mothers. I post on another board that’s over 90% women, and a HUGE percentage of them have the same issue I mentioned in the OP. :rolleyes: You make a lot of unsupported assertions. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534/171 "2013-12-20T00:57:23Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I realize this board is mostly men, but there are women who post here, and some of them are mothers. I post on another board that’s over 90% women, and a HUGE percentage of them have the same issue I mentioned in the OP. :rolleyes: > > One thing that’s pretty consistent is that they go all-out in decorating the house, baking cookies, buying gifts, etc. but their husbands do absolutely nothing, nor do the kids if they’re old enough to help, and don’t get them any presents either. Yes, the kids have asked why Mommy doesn’t get presents and doesn’t have a stocking, and more than once, this has been the explanation they gave because they felt it was less devastating to them than some variation of “Your daddy only cares about me because I’m a live-in maid, babysitter, and sex partner” - and no, he didn’t suddenly become this way after they had all their children, either. So I’m confused. Are the mommies at fault? Or the daddies? You seem to be striking a different tone now than you did in the OP. One thing I don’t get is why it seems so many women feel compelled to decorate, cook, shop, etc. when no one else seems to care as much. Is it that they feel pushed into doing these things and if they didn’t do them, they’d catch hell from a bunch of disappointed people? Or do they genuinely enjoy playing Martha Stewart and making everything happy, even if everyone would be just as happy with half as much fanfare? (I say “many” knowing that this may be more perception than reality. Many of the women I know seem to be ultra “do it up royal” types, while there’s a few like me hovering in the back who don’t want to be bothered with any of it and aren’t afraid to say so. But perhaps being in the back distorts the view?) ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534/172 "2013-12-20T01:03:57Z")
What, math isn’t science? Some shapes are inherently more harmonic (the brain reads them as pleasing, but that step is actually irrelevant), and this is measurable and calculable by mathematical means. You spit the correct numbers in, you get a quantifiable result out. The rules of composition, curvature and proportion are strict, universal across all cultures and times, and never vary. You can measure “ugly” and “beautiful” in their most basic terms. This goes for art, architecture, music (=math), color theory (as pure science as you get - or what, the study of the nature of light isn’t good enough either? You should tell the folks working with optics and lasers, it’ll be news to them), and indeed just about anything else you care to mention with a sensory component. [QUOTE=Nava] Shrug, my father knew my mother liked flowers. So he’d buy her flowers, and she’d think “oh my God these are horrible! Does he think I’m some cheap vaudeville artist?” but smile and bear it. She likes white and yellow; he liked orange, red, blue, purple… [/QUOTE] Well, sure. You get to either expect effort from a partner OR you get to picky about irrelevant details. One or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534/173 "2013-12-20T03:34:54Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > One thing I don’t get is why it seems so many women feel compelled to decorate, cook, shop, etc. when no one else seems to care as much. Is it that they feel pushed into doing these things and if they didn’t do them, they’d catch hell from a bunch of disappointed people? Or do they genuinely enjoy playing Martha Stewart and making everything happy, even if everyone would be just as happy with half as much fanfare? For me, I had memories of my family decorating a tree together - and they are treasured memories. I wanted to recreate those memories for my children. But my husband didn’t share those memories, so it wasn’t important to him, and so my kids developed a “we don’t need to” attitude over it. So now, I do very little decorating. But I decorate with the things that I like. When we first moved in together, my husband said he liked colored lights on a tree. I like white lights. And there are Christmas ornaments from his childhood he wants on that aren’t meaningful to me, and don’t fit “my” tree. For the first several years, we had colored lights and those ornaments on a tree I set up, decorated, and took down, that he seldom bothered to say “good looking tree honey.” Now, its white lights and the ornaments I care about - his stay in the box. If he cared that much, he’d help decorate. The thing about Christmas is its a holiday where there is a lot of work - and when you have kids, if the tree isn’t up, or the stockings don’t get found, or there are no Christmas cookies - wailing abounds. So you do the work - thanklessly, because they don’t notice it gets done - they notice when it DOESN’T. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534/174 "2013-12-20T03:42:29Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > The rules of composition, curvature and proportion are strict, universal across all cultures and times, and never vary. You can measure “ugly” and “beautiful” in their most basic terms. This goes for art, architecture, music (=math), color theory (as pure science as you get - or what, the study of the nature of light isn’t good enough either? You should tell the folks working with optics and lasers, it’ll be news to them), and indeed just about anything else you care to mention with a sensory component. This is what you think makes your argument about how everyone knows what’s attractive in jewelry? Yeah, we don’t agree about science. > [@Dangerosa](#): > > So you do the work - thanklessly, because they don’t notice it gets done - they notice when it DOESN’T. Sounds like it’s time your kids learned that “we don’t need to” means “then we don’t get it.” ---
**Author:** ![InsomniaMama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ad7895/32.png) [@InsomniaMama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InsomniaMama)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534/175 "2013-12-20T04:03:42Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Those presents, BTW, had a slight tendency to disappear themselves around the time we all went back to school after the break. :rolleyes: Huh? Were they edible? Returnable? I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534/176 "2013-12-20T04:47:14Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > So I’m confused. Are the mommies at fault? Or the daddies? > > You seem to be striking a different tone now than you did in the OP. Both would be at fault, really. Don’t tell her that, though. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534/177 "2013-12-20T04:49:14Z")
> [@InsomniaMama](#): > > Huh? Were they edible? Returnable? I don’t get it. No, she probably gave them away, or more likely trashed them too. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534/178 "2013-12-20T05:00:00Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > What, math isn’t science? Some shapes are inherently more harmonic (the brain reads them as pleasing, but that step is actually irrelevant), and this is measurable and calculable by mathematical means. You spit the correct numbers in, you get a quantifiable result out. I got you a tennis ball. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534/179 "2013-12-20T08:29:48Z")
I do pretty well at gift giving, which hopefully makes up for some of the many things I do badly. I’m a terrible singer, for example, and using that as an analogy, I have friends who cannot believe I don’t know how to carry a tune. “If you just listen, you’ll know” doesn’t help me. Maybe we ought to start a tread on advice for shopping for people. I’m not sure exactly how to help, though, because I naturally tend to notice the things which people here are talking about. Which clothes does she wear on dates and how are they different than others? What size of a specific brand does she have? In the dating phase, I’d give her a lot of inexpensive gifts, see her reaction and developed a sense for her tastes. However, that just isn’t common (and maybe the one thing I’m pretty good at) so I do feel for SOs who don’t have that and are expected to. My shameless brag for her present this year: My wife loves the fragrance of Japanese cypress wood, which used to be used extensively in Taiwan but it’s hopelessly expensive expensive. She also has complained that she has to stand up to put on her make up, and since we we’re moving into a new house, she wanted a table. I’ve recently taken up refurbishing wood stuff and so I’m making a makeup desk for her out of an old Japanese cypress-wood coffee table, tossed the legs, stripped the hideous varnish and am now making a frame around it and new taller legs. > [@PunditLisa](#): > > If he loves you, and I assume he does, he will change. If he slips back into his old ways, as people tend to do, give him a little nudge. Ouch. Is that really going to help the situation? So if he doesn’t change, this is proof that he doesn’t love her? > [@jsgoddess](#): > > I think you and I don’t have the same definition of “science,” let alone “a pleasing shape.” > [@Septima](#): > > What, math isn’t science? Some shapes are inherently more harmonic (the brain reads them as pleasing, but that step is actually irrelevant), and this is measurable and calculable by mathematical means. You spit the correct numbers in, you get a quantifiable result out. OK, I typed “woman” into google and randomly picked [one of the top images](http://10ambeauty.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Wearing-NARS-And-God-Created-The-Woman.jpg). Show me how the equations for picking a statement necklace for this woman ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534/180 "2013-12-20T08:50:31Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > I got you a tennis ball. It’s the perfect shape! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-annual-reminder-for-all-you-moms/676534.md?page=10)