# An Argument that Hits Home with MAGA **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 1, 2025, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581 "2025-08-01T14:22:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581/1 "2025-08-01T14:22:23Z")
Maybe should be IMHO? I don’t know. Over on a RWNJ board, someone made the argument that Trump has managed to turn the Republican party into the socialist party, all the while calling the Democrats Marxists. We now have the government telling companies how to make their products, controlling the press, controlling universities, choosing winners and losers in markets, making some consumers pay more to create inefficient jobs for others, and literally taking a controlling interest in companies. And it landed. It got the MAGA crowd tied in knots trying to argue none of that is socialist. So, for anyone looking to make hay, this argument seems to work. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581/2 "2025-08-01T14:23:34Z")
I’m afraid this argument is going to run into the same wall that 100 other arguments that ought to ‘hit home with MAGA’ do: namely, that Trump supporters may acknowledge it but won’t care, or will consider it acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581/3 "2025-08-01T14:26:12Z")
Their ways do not change-Their words do. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581/4 "2025-08-01T14:37:32Z")
‘If supporting Trump makes me a socialist then I’m a socialist, a National Socialist!’ ~ MAGA ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581/5 "2025-08-01T15:34:45Z")
They may get tied in knots, but they will continue to support him. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581/6 "2025-08-01T15:38:46Z")
Their strongest reason to do so is that what he does pisses off the Democrats, and pure spite is pure gasoline to their fire of indignation. ---
**Author:** ![RadioWave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/91b2a8/32.png) [@RadioWave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioWave)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581/7 "2025-08-01T15:41:30Z")
Actually, I like this tact and think it could work to some degree. Most of my wife’s family has turned MAGA, primarily because of abortion and anti-trans but they like to dress it up in anti-socialism arguments. This is a good way to stop the sheer stupidity of their economic arguments, especially with the recent steel deal where Trump gets massive control over a private corporation. Velocity’s correct in that they’ll ultimately segment off that part of their brain which is conflicted but at least it’s one brick removed from their support wall. Thanks for posting this and I’ll let you know if it does any real world good. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581/8 "2025-08-01T16:01:11Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > It got the MAGA crowd tied in knots trying to argue none of that is socialist. So, for anyone looking to make hay, this argument seems to work. Why do you think the argument “seems to work.” Did anyone say, “By golly, you’re right! He’s a lying con man, but my eyes are open now”? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581/9 "2025-08-01T16:03:08Z")
Cult members will always find a way to work around inconsistencies, or in this case blame them on “fake news” or “3D chess”. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581/10 "2025-08-01T16:07:26Z")
I seriously doubt most MAGA could tell anyone what constitutes a Marxist and how it is that democrats are changing the US into a Marxist state. Heck, I doubt Trump himself could make that argument. It’s all sound bites. The reality is of no interest to them as long as they think it owns the libs. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581/11 "2025-08-01T16:51:33Z")
Trump did not win solely on hardcore MAGA. There’s probably 20-30% of his base that IS persuadable. And socialism is a dirty word to them. > [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Why do you think the argument “seems to work.” Did anyone say, “By golly, you’re right! He’s a lying con man, but my eyes are open now”? Observationally, it tends to go something like this: If something is posted that they are just fine with, they respond by defending it. If something is posted that they don’t like, they pretend it isn’t true- literally deny things that are easily verifiable. But when something is posted that doesn’t look good for Trump and that is really plain to see, they respond with two things: ad hominem attacks on the poster and lots of “but Harris would” and “Obama did.” The responses I saw were those two, along with some deflection along the lines of “that’s not socialism, that’s protecting workers” If you spend some time there, you learn their language. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581/12 "2025-08-01T16:57:50Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > If you spend some time there, you learn their language. No, _they_ are learning what to say to placate you. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581/13 "2025-08-01T17:04:35Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > deflection along the lines of “that’s not socialism, that’s protecting workers” Ah yes. As already mentioned, they (and FWIW a large number of Americans in general) have no idea what socialism or marxism entails. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581/14 "2025-08-01T17:06:18Z")
Nothing will ever hit home with MAGA. They are lost souls. The only cure is embalming fluid. To them, DJT is incapable of error. He could institute state control of every industry and call it unbridled capitalism and they’d swallow it whole. Every single thing he ever says and does is by definition correct and just and the best thing to ever happen to the US. Nothing he can say or do could ever change their minds. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581/15 "2025-08-01T20:21:08Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Why do you think the argument “seems to work.” Did anyone say, “By golly, you’re right! He’s a lying con man, but my eyes are open now”? > > > [@OldOlds](#): > > > > Observationally, it tends to go something like this: If something is posted that they are just fine with, they respond by defending it. If something is posted that they don’t like, they pretend it isn’t true- literally deny things that are easily verifiable. But when something is posted that doesn’t look good for Trump and that is really plain to see, they respond with two things: ad hominem attacks on the poster and lots of “but Harris would” and “Obama did.” > > > > The responses I saw were those two, along with some deflection along the lines of “that’s not socialism, that’s protecting workers” > > > > If you spend some time there, you learn their language. I’m not sure what the particular issues under discussion were, but if they are what I suspect they were (the stuff RFK is doing with junk food, Coke bringing back cane sugar sodas / ditching the HFCS\*, the presidential fitness award, etc.), then it’s because Trump is doing what I have said before is the only thing that will lose him supporters. He (or at least RFK, and therefore Trump by proxy) is taking the liberal position. The fact that the way Trump is doing it isn’t the correct way to do so isn’t important\*\*. It’s that these are things which will actually help the health of the general American public, and they are against anything that helps people that they don’t like. The MAGA philosophy is essentially “we want to do things that will hurt the people we hate, and if it hurts as well, we can live with that as a side effect”. If something helps the people they hate, they are going to be against it, even if it’s Trump that is doing it. \*. Yes, I know cane sugar isn’t the healthiest of foods, but it is better than HFCS. \*\*. Ironically I suspect that liberals would be the exact opposite, in that they will oppose things that are good if Trump is imposing them in a way that violates the letter of the law / the old democratic norms. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581/16 "2025-08-01T20:28:21Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > \*. Yes, I know cane sugar isn’t the healthiest of foods, but it is better than HFCS. There really isn’t any evidence for that, and in fact in a soda both HFCS and cane sugar convert to the same mixture of fructose and glucose. In fact, if you analyze them, you get the same results. Let’s not forget that the president (not even the government) has a “golden share” in US Steel The reason I think it landed is that most of those really are left of center (in the US) actions. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581/17 "2025-08-01T20:38:56Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > The reason I think it landed is that most of those really are left of center (in the US) actions. Yes. That’s what I’m getting at. If Trump does things that are going to benefit the poor or minorities, they will be opposed to that, regardless of it’s done by presidential fiat or if it goes through the regular legislative process. Helping people that the MAGA base hates is the only possible sin that Trump can commit. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581/18 "2025-08-02T16:07:52Z")
Should you all need some basic primers: > **[The Democratic Party of the 20th Century](https://publius2point0.wordpress.com/2024/06/23/the-democratic-party-of-the-20th-century/)** > > There are a lot of things that fail to get notice because it’s simply inconvenient for the partisans. California is working forward on a plan to forcibly hospitalize the homeless, Donald Trum… > **[The Road from Socialism to Fascism](https://publius2point0.wordpress.com/2025/05/08/the-road-from-socialism-to-fascism/)** > > Mussolini was, of course, a Socialist. Likewise, so was Hitler, Leopoldo Lugones, Otto Strasser, Giovanni Gentile, Oswald Mosley, and most other early Fascists. In general, the aspect of Socialism … > **[Government Aid](https://publius2point0.wordpress.com/2025/03/04/government-aid/)** > > A longer form of the Reagan quote: I think you all know that I’ve always felt the nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the Government, and I’m here to … > **[Republicans ended the Spoils System](https://publius2point0.wordpress.com/2025/02/19/republicans-ended-the-spoils-system/)** > > Begun largely by Thomas Jefferson (D) and maximalized by Andrew Jackson (D), the spoils system rewarded workers for loyalty to the party, and gave them positions of power that they could use to pro… > **[How to Win a Cold War](https://publius2point0.wordpress.com/2025/01/02/how-to-win-a-cold-war/)** > > Starting around the 1950s, there began a global competition between the Capitalist and the Communist countries. One element of this fight was the presence of nuclear weapons. In theory, at any mome… > **[How to Shrink the Military (on the sly)](https://publius2point0.wordpress.com/2025/04/28/how-to-shrink-the-military-on-the-sly/)** > > A correction from the previous post, the 2-year old US citizen that was deported was with one parent (I initially wrote, “sans parents”). It’s still not clear whether either paren… > **[What party are you?](https://publius2point0.wordpress.com/2023/04/24/what-party-are-you/)** > > If you look back through the history of the two parties, these are the major points of philosophical difference: DemocraticRepublicanDemocracy / PopulismRepublic / ElitismCollectivismIndividualism … ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581/19 "2025-08-02T16:36:04Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > Trump has managed to turn the Republican party into the socialist party, all the while calling the Democrats Marxists. > > We now have the government telling companies how to make their products, controlling the press, controlling universities, choosing winners and losers in markets, making some consumers pay more to create inefficient jobs for others, and literally taking a controlling interest in companies. I had to steal this. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I seriously doubt most MAGA could tell anyone what constitutes a Marxist and how it is that democrats are changing the US into a Marxist state. Of course they can’t. In their lizard brains, ‘Socialist = BAD!’ So keep calling them Socialists. Make them think that everybody thinks they are, and calls them, Socialists. Make them think that their friends think they’re Socialists. And pound it into them that their Messiah is a National Socialist. It’ll drive them nuts. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581/20 "2025-08-02T16:37:17Z")
> Mussolini was, of course, a Socialist. Likewise, so was Hitler, Uh, **NO**. That “Reason” for a New Age site is dumb. > **[Fascism | Holocaust Encyclopedia](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/fascism-1)** > > Fascism is a far-right authoritarian political philosophy. Learn about the history and principles of fascism and its implementation in Nazi Germany. > **[Benito Mussolini](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Mussolini)** > > Benito Amilcare Andrea Mussolini\[a\] (29 July 1883 – 28 April 1945) was an Italian politician and journalist who, upon assuming office as Prime Minister, became the dictator of Fascist Italy from the March on Rome in 1922 until his overthrow in 1943. He was also Duce of Italian fascism upon the establishment of the Italian Fasces of Combat in 1919, and held the title until his summary execution in 1945. He founded and led the National Fascist Party (PNF). As a dictator and founder of fascism, ... > While Benito Mussolini began his political career as a socialist, he ultimately rejected socialism and became the founder of the fascist movement. Initially, he was a member of the Italian Socialist Party (PSI) and even edited their newspaper, Avanti!. However, his views shifted towards nationalism and he was expelled from the PSI for advocating military intervention in World War I. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-argument-that-hits-home-with-maga/1021581.md?page=2)