# An army which could annihilate a 1898s era military with few casualties attacks a modern military? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 18, 2017, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895 "2017-05-18T04:18:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dude\_robert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8e7dd6/32.png) [@dude\_robert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dude_robert)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895/1 "2017-05-18T04:18:01Z")
Err, on second thought, this should probably actually be in MPSIMS. So, let’s say an army, which could easily decimate a 1898-era army arrives on modern earth and attacks a modern-day military. This mysterious army is composed of mostly long-range siege units which use a mixture of chemical weapons and a superheated “ray” of heat… This ray of heat is extremely destructive, and can turn a wooden mansion into torched charcoal in seconds. When they fought the 1898’s army, they lost 4 men out of 60 men total. Each “man” is actually an armoured unit which is about 30 meters tall, and can fire it’s ray up to 1 kilometer away, any further and it becomes significantly less powerful. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895/2 "2017-05-18T04:36:44Z")
An 1898-style death ray, you say? I’m not sure there’s any precedent for discussing such an outlandish idea. Now, we could have a much more serious discussion if you were interested in a hypothetical opponent equipped with 1920s-style death rays… Snark aside, magic walking tanks that only have an effective range of 1 km would be out-ranged and obliterated by a modern military. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895/3 "2017-05-18T04:49:01Z")
Can I have the phone number of your drug dealer? ---
**Author:** ![dude\_robert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8e7dd6/32.png) [@dude\_robert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dude_robert)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895/4 "2017-05-18T05:05:32Z")
> [@lazybratsche](#): > > An 1898-style death ray, you say? I’m not sure there’s any precedent for discussing such an outlandish idea. > > Now, we could have a much more serious discussion if you were interested in a hypothetical opponent equipped with 1920s-style death rays… > > Snark aside, magic walking tanks that only have an effective range of 1 km would be out-ranged and obliterated by a modern military. I was meaning to just outright say the Martian Tripods from the original H.G. Wells novel, but wanted to be more subtle and creative. I was wondering how well the tripods would fare against modern earth. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895/5 "2017-05-18T05:17:26Z")
Unless you want to equip your invaders with some sort of shielding its going to be a very lopsided fight. I wouldn’t even start to guess how many Stinger missiles we have in our inventory. I’d also be willing to bet that even the 50cal Barrett rifles in civilian hands would do real damage against joints and other soft points of the walkers. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895/6 "2017-05-18T05:46:37Z")
If 1 km is the range of their heat ray, they might have a bit of a problem with attacking aircraft, even if they have [aircraft of their own.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_machine_(The_War_of_the_Worlds)) The Martians of Wells’ work weren’t invulnerable, even to conventional forces of the time—at least two Tripods are killed with shellfire, in two different engagements (with a third temporarily disabled), and another killed via ramming. And there’s been over a hundred years of improvements in weaponry—and, perhaps more importantly, communications and sensors—since then. Honestly, I actually kind of wonder if the _1953_ Martians did better than they should have, given the human state of the art, especially since the Martians tended to keep to fixed, predictable paths “like scythes.” Emplacing mines—especially atomic ones—in their paths to detonate within the Martians’ shield bubble might have been a viable tactic. Or, especially since the shields didn’t appear to be airtight, even to a casual observer, using chemical or biological agents against them might have been effective. And of course, in fact, the latter _was_. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895/7 "2017-05-18T15:26:18Z")
> [@lazybratsche](#): > > An 1898-style death ray, you say? I’m not sure there’s any precedent for discussing such an outlandish idea. > > Now, we could have a much more serious discussion if you were interested in a hypothetical opponent equipped with 1920s-style death rays… Hmmm. If only we had some body of knowledge or history of such discussions… > [@](#): > > Snark aside, magic walking tanks that only have an effective range of 1 km would be out-ranged and obliterated by a modern military. Walking tanks are always a bad idea. They violate, by their very existence, a highly important aspect of war: [Do not be seen](https://youtu.be/zekiZYSVdeQ). > [@Ranchoth](#): > > Honestly, I actually kind of wonder if the _1953_ Martians did better than they should have, given the human state of the art, especially since the Martians tended to keep to fixed, predictable paths “like scythes.” Emplacing mines—especially atomic ones—in their paths to detonate within the Martians’ shield bubble might have been a viable tactic. To be fair, they did have the Nifty Force Field[sup]tm[/sup] working for them. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895/8 "2017-05-18T16:01:59Z")
An AH-64 would knock them all out. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895/9 "2017-05-18T23:18:17Z")
The advance in armor-piercing shells, over the last century, has been staggering. (I’m still impressed by HEAT rounds…and I think they’ve been surpassed already.) Also, there’s the ATAT trick, with drones trailing entangling cable: that wouldn’t have worked a century ago, but would be jolly fun today. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895/10 "2017-05-18T23:39:22Z")
In the original novel, a very skilled and very lucky steamship is able to destroy a Martian walker using conventional 19th century artillery shells. So they’d be straight fucked against a 21st century army. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895/11 "2017-05-18T23:47:24Z")
Steam ram Thunder Child mangled one of those bastards back in 1898. I think modern tanks and attack aircraft would go through the book version Martians like a hot knife through butter. Operation Desert Storm level walkover, except for the walking part. I mean the Martians will be walking but we’ll walk over them despite not walking. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895/12 "2017-05-18T23:55:48Z")
Teddy Roosevelt would eat the tripods for breakfast. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895/13 "2017-05-19T00:10:46Z")
Wells’ Martians were actually a pretty close match for what would become WWII technology. And we are now further beyond WWII than WWII was beyond Wells. **snfaulkner** , we’re talking about real-world tech here. Don’t go bringing in fictional superheroes like Teddy. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895/14 "2017-05-19T16:29:16Z")
Now, of course, the Martians have also had a century to improve their tech… This could be really, really bad for ol’ Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895/15 "2017-05-19T18:03:39Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Now, of course, the Martians have also had a century to improve their tech… This could be really, really bad for ol’ Earth. 1998-style Death Rays? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895/16 "2017-05-19T18:20:10Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Now, of course, the Martians have also had a century to improve their tech… This could be really, really bad for ol’ Earth. And we don’t have Teddy any more but we do have some pretty kick ass SEAL teams. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895/17 "2017-05-20T15:09:56Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > The Martians of Wells’ work weren’t invulnerable, even to conventional forces of the time—at least two Tripods are killed with shellfire, in two different engagements (with a third temporarily disabled), and another killed via ramming. And there’s been over a hundred years of improvements in weaponry—and, perhaps more importantly, communications and sensors—since then. I came in here to say that, much of the initial effectiveness of the Martian invaders was basically ‘shock and awe’ and the human defence only really fell apart when the ‘black smoke’ was used against them, flash-forward a couple of decades and First World War era gas-masks could quite possible have helped mitigate even that tactic. I read War of the Worlds fairly recently and I was surprised at how modern in feel and how readable it is even today, it really is a classic book for a reason. And on a side-note I kind of raise an eyebrow when people say that it was really about colonialism as if that is some kind of revelation, it makes me suspect they’ve never actually read the book because HG Wells outright states that in the introduction. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ssgenius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@ssgenius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssgenius)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895/18 "2017-05-22T02:45:30Z")
I think we are selling the 1898 Martians a little short. The military of today would still probably win but these Martians would change their tactics somewhat especially after they lost some ships. One of the things in the original book and the 1953 movie, is that the Martians were quite bold in that their ships just stood there and let the humans give their best shot at them and then they just continued to move destroying everything in its path. This involves panic and a lot of the book is describing the panic caused by these "unstoppable " Martians. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895/19 "2017-05-23T18:25:20Z")
> [@ssgenius](#): > > The military of today would still probably win but these Martians would change their tactics somewhat especially after they lost some ships. You presume that our putative Martians are mentally flexible. You can be quite brilliant, and still have an inability to rapidly or readily adapt. Social structures, mental flexibility, logistics chain… Many things could straight-jacket your martians. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895/20 "2017-05-23T18:43:05Z")
> [@dude\_robert](#): > > I was meaning to just outright say the Martian Tripods from the original H.G. Wells novel, but wanted to be more subtle and creative. I was wondering how well the tripods would fare against modern earth. I suppose the Martians would have another 120 years of weapons development under their belts and still suffer few casualties. They might have even figured out what microbes are. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-army-which-could-annihilate-a-1898s-era-military-with-few-casualties-attacks-a-modern-military/786895.md?page=2)