# An asterisk for Aaron Judge? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [September 29, 2022, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453 "2022-09-29T13:42:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453/21 "2022-09-29T15:32:19Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > the comparative differences are dramatic. Are they? What year do you draw the line so we can look at these differences objectively. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453/22 "2022-09-29T15:36:08Z")
Amphetamines were among the most common drugs players were taking but not the only ones. Players were trying all sorts of things, not just amphetamines. And even if they didn’t work as hoped, the intent was certainly to chemically enhance performance. And that’s been going on since the 19th century. “They weren’t as effective” is not the comeback some think it is. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453/23 "2022-09-29T15:36:25Z")
If he only hit at Comerica, he’d have 49 right now. If he were a Red or a Rockie, he’d have 70! Park factors are crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453/24 "2022-09-29T15:36:53Z")
That’s impressive considering those two are in comparison to a total of 61. ---
**Author:** ![Jaycat.again](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat.again/32/11525_2.png) [@Jaycat.again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaycat.again)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453/25 "2022-09-29T16:16:08Z")
I suppose Dock Ellis should get an asterisk for pitching while tripping on LSD. What would be really interesting would be a list of mediocre hitters who took steroids and remained mediocre. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453/26 "2022-09-29T16:24:33Z")
What stopped? Home-runs have gone up since the steroid era. Players who get caught using steroids don’t hit anymore home-runs than the average player and they don’t hit less home-runs when they come back from suspension beyond normal aging attrition. And of course a lot of people who gets caught are pitchers. Steroids probably helped Bonds, but there isn’t really that much evidence that in general they made a dramatic difference, There were a lot of other changes in baseball at the time that could have had as great an impact. It is possible that Bonds in particular was an obsessive worker and steroids helped him work harder than normally possibly. Even so, as again steroids weren’t really against the rules at the time, I do not blame him for it. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453/27 "2022-09-29T16:25:40Z")
Steroids may be more effective in developing strength but I think amphetamines provide overall better performance for baseball players. They are particularly effective for maintaining focus in a game that involves only periodic moments of high intensity action and may improve general hitting ability even without a noticeable increase in distance. It also doesn’t matter if Maris used PEDs himself (I don’t believe he did) his record of home runs that year would have to be examined to see if the performance of other players provided him with more home run opportunities through their own performance in the lineup, or for the pitchers on his team to improve their performance allowing more opportunities for batters to swing away. So it’s not about the direct effect of PEDs on clean athletes, and there should be none, but it is about the overall effect on the game when other players performances are unfairly enhanced. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453/28 "2022-09-29T16:44:22Z")
I look at it this way: the advantage the steroids gave Bonds was made up for by all of the intentional walks the pitchers gave him. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453/29 "2022-09-29T16:45:55Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I look at it this way: the advantage the steroids gave Bonds was made up for by all of the intentional walks the pitchers gave him I wonder if the pitchers were steroid-enhanced. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453/30 "2022-09-29T17:16:45Z")
They were. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453/31 "2022-09-29T17:51:28Z")
Does anyone think Bonds hits 73 in a season without PEDs? I sure don’t. It’s akin to all those sprinters smashing records. PED users all. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453/32 "2022-09-29T18:12:03Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > The question is, should he get an asterisk in the MLB record book with the notation, “Most home runs in a single season by a player who was not steroid aided.” Nobody who has hot 60+ homers ever failed a steroid test. > [@Jasmine](#): > > My petulance and sarcasm clouded what I was really trying to say, and for that I apologize. What I really want is for MLB to throw out all records held by those 3 men. They should not be acknowledged in any way because they were the product of blatant cheating. The problem with this approach is that it’s ridiculous. The most home runs a person has ever hit in an MLB season is 73. It just is. If you want to pretend the record is whatever Aaron Judge hits this year (and hope he doesn’t fail a steroid test) then go ahead, but the team states for the San Francisco Giants in 2001 will show that Barry Bonds hit 73 home runs. A record is exactly that - it is a recording of something that happened in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453/33 "2022-09-30T02:17:38Z")
I just wonder why the OP is so sure Judge isn’t on the juice. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453/34 "2022-09-30T02:42:05Z")
All players are subject to PED testing in Spring Training, and subject to random tests during the season and offseason. That’s why you hear about players getting caught. The testing policies only started in 2004. You can be far more confident about Judge or any other player than someone playing before those tests were in place. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453/35 "2022-09-30T04:38:14Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > No, no, not because [Judge] hit 61 home runs in 162 games Less; there haven’t yet been 162 games played. And now I’m curious how many actual games it took Maris and Judge to hit 61. I’m finding it surprisingly hard to Google the answers without actually opening and reading articles, but that seems like a lot of effort. (For some reason I think Roger Maris hit 61 in the last game of the season, but I don’t know anything about baseball so I have no idea how I would know that. Or was it the last home game? Now I think I’m just making stuff up.) I’m not a baseball guy at all but I’m rooting pretty friggin’ hard for Judge to get both 62+ and the triple crown. And I don’t even know what the triple crown is; I only know the term from horse racing. Such a fun story, but I hope the pressure isn’t driving him crazy. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453/36 "2022-09-30T05:11:06Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > (For some reason I think Roger Maris hit 61 in the last game of the season, but I don’t know anything about baseball so I have no idea how I would know that. Or was it the last home game? Now I think I’m just making stuff up.) Nope, you’re right, it was in the final game. Quoting Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > Maris hit his 61st home run on October 1, 1961, in the fourth inning of the last game of the season, at Yankee Stadium in front of 23,154 fans. > **[Roger Maris | 1961](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Maris#1961)** > > In 1961, the AL expanded from eight to ten teams. In the expansion draft, the newly created Los Angeles Angels and Washington Senators\[b\] were restricted to drafting players from AL rosters. The perceived result was that American League team rosters had become watered down, as players who would otherwise have been playing at AAA, if not lower, were now in the AL. The Yankees, however, were left mainly intact.\[citation needed\] In order to maintain a balanced schedule, AL owners extended the season... > [@EllisDee](#): > > And I don’t even know what the triple crown is It’s leading the league in batting average, home runs, and runs batted in. Judge is currently leading the American League in home runs (of course) and RBIs, with big leads in both categories. According to Baseball Reference, he is currently tied with Luis Arraez of the Twins for the batting average lead, at .313. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453/37 "2022-09-30T05:14:24Z")
Hey, nice, I knew something about baseball! Judge just hit 61 the other night, right? How many games were left in the season when he did? ETA: Google says Ruth hit 60 home runs when seasons were 154 games. I’m pretty sure Judge hit 61 in fewer than 154 games. I really hope he did. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453/38 "2022-09-30T05:19:20Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Judge just hit 61 the other night, right? How many games were left in the season when he did? He hit #61 on Wednesday; it was the Yankees’ 155th game of the season. They have seven games remaining on their schedule. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453/39 "2022-09-30T05:43:13Z")
I’ll be pulling for Judge to hit #62 in the remaining games. A comment about Bonds: how many of the pitchers he faced were juiced? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453/40 "2022-09-30T06:00:32Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > A comment about Bonds: how many of the pitchers he faced were juiced? Undoubtedly some; the ESPN article below, from 2009, lists several dozen of the most prominent players who had been linked to PEDs (either implicated, or admitted). There are several big-name pitchers on the list (Kevin Brown, Roger Clemens, Chuck Finley, Eric Gagne, and Andy Pettite), but it seems like the benefit to PEDs for pitchers is somewhat different than for hitters. From some articles I’m finding, while hitters used them to bulk up, and hit for power, for pitchers, while they might gain some velocity from stronger muscles, the perceived benefits for them may have been more in faster muscle recovery after a pitching outing. > **[Why do pitchers use steroids?](https://www.espn.com/espnmag/story?id=3246463)** > > Does a pitcher even need an opportunity to use steroids? Yes - to recover from the most unnatural act in the game: throwing a baseball. [https://www.seattlepi.com/sports/baseball/article/Pitchers-muscle-in-on-steroids-1172447.php](https://www.seattlepi.com/sports/baseball/article/Pitchers-muscle-in-on-steroids-1172447.php) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-asterisk-for-aaron-judge/972453.md?page=3)