# An atheist head of state? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 22, 2011, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416 "2011-06-22T12:42:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416/21 "2011-06-23T16:09:29Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > Which one? As far as I know the last few Presidents of Poland have been Catholic. > > Wikipedia claims that the current [head of state of Italy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giorgio_Napolitano) is Roman Catholic, but as he’s an elder Communist politician it’s kind of doubtful. Somebody on the talk page does claim he’s an atheist. Of course, head of state of Italy is largely a figurehead role. > **[Aleksander Kwaśniewski](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksander_Kwa%C5%9Bniewski)** > > Aleksander Kwaśniewski (.mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}Polish pronunciation: \[alɛˈksandɛr kfaˈɕɲɛfskʲi\] ⓘ; born 15 November 1954) is a Polish politician and journalist who served as the third president of Poland from 1995 to 2005. > Kwaśniewski served as a minister in the communist government during the 1980s, and later led the po... The second last one! Ruled until 2005. And Italy is, well…it’s Italy. Don’t try to explain it through North American lens. Much like in Latin American countries, one does not always need to reject Catholicism to be a lefty. Then of course, if you talk about atheism and Italian politics, you simply must mention Il Duce. There seems to be little to no doubt he was both atheist and anti-clerical (unlike the fights about Hitler’s religious views which become shitty bouts of hot potato), but that didn’t stop him from playing the religion card more shrewdly than a GOP frontrunner! ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416/22 "2011-06-23T16:28:43Z")
If we’re going back before G20 days, there was a pretty famous atheist French Head of State named Bonaparte. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416/23 "2011-06-23T16:36:23Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Really? I had the distinct impression that James II, the brother of Charles II, was Catholic. Apparently, wiki agrees with me: [James II of England - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_II_of_England). Strictly speaking, he was still a member of the Church of England because the monarch was the _de jure_ head of the Church. But yes, he was a practising Catholic. ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416/24 "2011-06-23T17:57:21Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > If we’re going back before G20 days, there was a pretty famous atheist French Head of State named Bonaparte. What I’ve read about the man led me to believe he was an anti-clerical deist, but not an outright atheist. Could be wrong, though. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416/25 "2011-06-23T18:30:16Z")
> [@antonio107](#): > > [Aleksander Kwaśniewski - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksander_Kwa%C5%9Bniewski) > > The second last one! Ruled until 2005. Ah, thanks. I thought about Lech Kaczyński, but he was quite obviously Catholic. So I wondered if you’d gone back to the Communist epoch, and didn’t think of looking at the guy just before Kaczyński. > [@](#): > > And Italy is, well…it’s Italy. Don’t try to explain it through North American lens. Much like in Latin American countries, one does not always need to reject Catholicism to be a lefty. Italy isn’t all that Catholic. Much less than Poland anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416/26 "2011-06-23T18:39:15Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > Wikipedia claims that the current [head of state of Italy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giorgio_Napolitano) is Roman Catholic, but as he’s an elder Communist politician it’s kind of doubtful. Somebody on the talk page does claim he’s an atheist. Of course, head of state of Italy is largely a figurehead role. I would assume that if he was baptised by his parents (and optionally confirmed), then he would be called Catholic regardless of what his beliefs are now. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416/27 "2011-06-23T22:02:25Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > I would assume that if he was baptised by his parents (and optionally confirmed), then he would be called Catholic regardless of what his beliefs are now. This may be what the Church says, but it’s not how I would define it. I’m baptised as a Catholic (though never confirmed), but I also do not believe in any god, and so I don’t consider myself Catholic, or Christian at all. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416/28 "2011-06-24T13:49:24Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > This may be what the Church says, but it’s not how I would define it. I’m baptised as a Catholic (though never confirmed), but I also do not believe in any god, and so I don’t consider myself Catholic, or Christian at all. I don’t mean just the Church, but how many people will identify themselves on forms. For example, when I signed up for military service in Switzerland, they asked my religion, so even though I didn’t believe in God any more, I put Catholic on the form. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416/29 "2011-06-24T17:37:04Z")
I see. Well, if I ever move to a country where I need to declare a religious affiliation (to put on my national identity card, for example), and “no religion” is _not_ an acceptable choice, then yes, I would go with “Roman Catholic”. But otherwise, it’s “no religion” for me. And I’m sure it’s an acceptable choice in Switzerland. Though I get your point. Plenty of people still call themselves “Catholic” even though they don’t actually believe in any god, or hold beliefs that would be considered completely heretical by the Church. I believe that the modern atheists’ movement (the “New Atheists”, as per the recent GD thread) is largely an American phenomenon, in large part driven by the visibility and political power of Evangelical Protestants in the US. In countries where religion takes less place in the public sphere, people have less need to identify themselves as atheists. And in some countries, “religious” affiliation is actually a way to declare yourself part of a particular community, even if you do not actually hold any belief. Northern Ireland is a well-known example. Is Switzerland another one? I recall that maintaining the autonomy of both Catholic and Protestant communities has been an important factor in that country’s history. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416/30 "2011-06-24T22:20:05Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > I see. Well, if I ever move to a country where I need to declare a religious affiliation (to put on my national identity card, for example), and “no religion” is _not_ an acceptable choice, then yes, I would go with “Roman Catholic”. But otherwise, it’s “no religion” for me. And I’m sure it’s an acceptable choice in Switzerland. I don’t know what the situation is nowadays, but back in my day if there was any option like that (no religious affiliation) it would have been as a write-in choice under other. Most of the time, I saw two or three choices: Catholic, Protestant, maybe Jewish. Nowadays they are probably more cosmopolitan. This is something that many Swiss citizens will have to declare at some time or another. In most places, you are expected to pay a [church tax](http://www.ch.ch/private/00093/00098/00453/00460/index.html?lang=en) ([impôt ecclésiastique](http://www.ch.ch/private/00093/00098/00453/00460/index.html?lang=fr)), and choose between Catholic or Protestant to determine who will get the church tax. If you want to, you can, (like my brother did), declare yourself agnostic and not pay the tax. But in my experience most people pick the religion they were raised in. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416/31 "2011-06-24T23:21:19Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > … > Italy isn’t all that Catholic. Much less than Poland anyway. Wikipedia lists Italy at 90%, and Poland at 89.8%. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416/32 "2011-06-25T00:04:39Z")
Thanks for the information **Arnold**. > [@garygnu](#): > > Wikipedia lists Italy at 90%, and Poland at 89.8%. In terms of people calling themselves Catholic on surveys, not necessarily in terms of actual practice. And what I meant is that the Catholic Church still has an important role to play in current Polish political life. It’s not nearly the same in Italy. In a few days in Poland I saw a young monk and a young nun, both dressed in traditional garments. I didn’t see anything similar in a few months in Italy. (There are nuns, but they’re all old.) ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416/33 "2011-06-25T02:01:39Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > …This is something that many Swiss citizens will have to declare at some time or another. In most places, you are expected to pay a [church tax](http://www.ch.ch/private/00093/00098/00453/00460/index.html?lang=en) ([impôt ecclésiastique](http://www.ch.ch/private/00093/00098/00453/00460/index.html?lang=fr)), and choose between Catholic or Protestant to determine who will get the church tax. If you want to, you can, (like my brother did), declare yourself agnostic and not pay the tax. But in my experience most people pick the religion they were raised in. I belive that in Iceland atheists, agnostics, & anyone else not a member of one of the recognized religous groups still has to pay the church tax, but their “church” is the University of Iceland. I don’t like the idea of the government collecting tithes, but I could live with that setup. ---
**Author:** ![seysearles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@seysearles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seysearles)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416/34 "2011-08-29T21:51:29Z")
Australian politics is littered with atheists starting from the top down with a number of our prime ministers and governor generals publicly declaring their non-belief. In fact, I would dare say an outspoken religious proponent would find it far more difficult to gain office in Australia than a declared atheist. I’m very proud of this fact and I’m sure history will look back on this era and say we were one of a handful of countries that made the first vital leap from a world of mysticism and mythology to one with genuine enlightened human morality. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416/35 "2011-08-29T22:30:53Z")
Many German politicians are openly not religious - the former chancellor [Helmut Schmidt](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Schmidt) comes to mind or [Gerhard Schröder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der), who, btw, was also divorced several times before he became head of the government. It might not surprise you then that his [Foreign Minister and Vice Chancellor](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joschka_Fischer) was an ex-“street fighter” who had more than a few battles with the police in his youth. 😉 Religion doesn’t really matter, unless, of course, your clientele is mostly Christian. Though, I am pretty sure, an outspoken Muslim would find it a lot harder to get elected close to the centre of power. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416/36 "2011-10-23T06:26:35Z")
> [@wintertime](#): > > Many German politicians are openly not religious - the former chancellor [Helmut Schmidt](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Schmidt) comes to mind or [Gerhard Schröder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der) Again, the OP was looking for G20 heads of state. Neither Schmidt nor Schröder was in office when Germany was in G20. If we relax this rule to include previous heads of states of current G20 members, then you can include all the heads of state from the GDR and USSR. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416/37 "2011-10-23T06:46:54Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Yes, we have a red-headed, childless, living in sin, female, atheist head of government. If you were any less hip than us, your asses would fall off. We rock. She’s also quite the [hottie](http://www.google.ca/search?q=Julia+Gillard&tbm=isch). ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416/38 "2011-10-23T06:52:09Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I belive that in Iceland atheists, agnostics, & anyone else not a member of one of the recognized religous groups still has to pay the church tax, but their “church” is the University of Iceland. I don’t like the idea of the government collecting tithes, but I could live with that setup. [Cite of sorts](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax#Iceland) That’s ingenious. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416/39 "2011-10-23T06:56:51Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > Again, the OP was looking for G20 heads of state. Neither Schmidt nor Schröder was in office when Germany was in G20. From [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-20_major_economies#History): > [@](#): > > The G-20, which superseded the G33, which had itself superseded the G22, was foreshadowed at the Cologne Summit of the G7 in June 1999, but was formally established at the G7 Finance Ministers’ meeting on 26 September 1999. The inaugural meeting took place on 15–16 December 1999 in Berlin. [Schröder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der) was in office from October 1998 to November 2005. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416/40 "2011-10-23T07:12:52Z")
> [@Fish\_Cheer](#): > > From [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-20_major_economies#History):[Schröder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der) was in office from October 1998 to November 2005. OK, granted. But he could not possibly have attended a meeting of G20 heads of state, the first of which was held in 2008. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-atheist-head-of-state/586416.md?page=3)