An aviation question.

It’s less likely that any unbalance rotations would create criticla resonance in the wing structure; the fan will be turning (and thus the unbalance will be at the frequency of) tens of thousands of RPM (1000’s of Hz), while the resonance modes of the wing structure are going to be on the order of single digit frequencies. It’s more likely the actual unbalance reaction force that’ll put loads on the wings, and the shear pins are designed to shear free before the wing structure tears apart. In other words, the shear pins holding in the engine are strong, but are designed to have marginally less strength than the wing itself.

I can’t believe this thread has gotten this far without making an obigatory Donnie Darko reference. Okay, I’ll do it: “28 days… 6 hours… 42 minutes… 12 seconds. That… is when the world… will end.”

That taken care of, sure, there’s a danger that a falling engine might pose some hazard to someone on the ground. But despite the fact that it’s a highly critical failure, the likelyhood of occurance is very, very low, and most likely to occur (like most airliner failures) on take-off or landing. Designing an engine to fragment after detacting from the airframe would be extremely difficult (I’d venture to say virtually impossible) and would then just create an expanded fly-down hazard of marginally less dangerous debris over a wider area. Better to kill just one kid in his bedroom than a schoolyard full of children, non? Other schemes like putting parachutes or the like on an engine are functionally problematic (how would you attach the lines and assure that the chute isn’t dragged into the intake) and would increase weight and maintenance. So instead we live with the extremely unlikley hazard of jet engines falling out of the sky, which is less likely to terminate your life than the drunk driver in the lane next to you or the improperly wired GFCI outlet in your bathroom.

“I’m voting for Dukakis.”

Stranger

No, it isn’t. No practical way exists to do so. Any “mitigation” is, bluntly, along the lines of the maximum damage a single falling (and nonburning) engine can do to people or property on the ground, compared to the damage an entire crashing and flaming airplane can do.

Sorry, missed this. Yes, it is. Twins are certified with, among all the other critical airspeeds, one called Vmc - minimum control airspeed. Normally one does not take off until reaching Vmc, in case of an engine failure at the most critical time, takeoff.
Pay attention to Stranger - he speaks truth.

Just FTR, though, a rotor has not only its own speed but a "whirl’ speed that has to be taken into account. That’s where its CG rotates about the nominal centerline, at some speed not related to the rotor’s own rotating speed, as a result of its own mass and bending stiffness. As is tragically the usual case, that was discovered the hard way, after several Lockheed Electra turboprops crashed due to propeller whirl (with worn engine mounts) happened to excite a wing bending mode with positive feedback - i.e. the wings tore off. Turbofan as well as turboprop installations are now certified to have no such synchronous modes in the operating range.

Piston twin engine pilot here.

First, to be clear, a ‘flat’ pitch is used for takeoff and is usually called ‘fine’ pitch. But either way, it is the position used to allow the engine to spin the prop the fastest, so to speak.

High pitch or a ‘coarse’ pitch is a ‘cruise’ pitch and is used as is stated.

When ‘fixed’ pitch props are used, they are in between some place so as to make the best use of the engine on that airframe in the best way. Some people actually switch props depending on what they are doing. Like water or land use in Alaska.

Anyway, if an engine with a constant speed propeller actually sizes up without tearing off the airframe when it stops turning, that is where the pitch stays or they are of the design that between the slip stream and the springs inside, they ‘might’ push the blades towards the ‘coarse’ or ‘high’ pitch or the ‘feathered’ position. Do not count on it.

Lets take the most usual reason for engine stoppage on a piston engine general aviation aircraft. “Lack of fuel.”

The engine will ‘windmill’ ( The apparent wind passing over the propeller keeps it spinning at some RPM depending on glide speed the aircraft is at and engine compression and friction.) If there is no glide speed, the pilot won’t care about the rest of this.

The speed of the propeller is below that set by the propeller controller ( Average lowest setting is about 2000 RPM and so the propeller hub flattens the pitch as power falls so that the engine can easier spin the prop. Of course it can’t because it has no fuel.

If you angle the blades into the wind more than the flat pitch, the engine will; 1) spin slower, 2) the drag on the airframe will be less and you will glide farther. 3) best thing is to ‘feather’ the propeller, ie, align it with the slip stream and that will be the least drag, other than removing it completely, so as to glide the farthest. Most single engine planes do not have a feather position. (weight, cost, complexity {cost benefit ratios})

If you really must; and have sufficient time and altitude and know that the engine can not be restarted, (You know you are out of fuel and there is no way it is going to run again without a gas truck.) in say a Cessna -180, you can go to full flaps and the ‘highest’, ‘coarsest,’ pitch and do a really excessive stall so that you get below say 40 MPH before the nose drops, and if the engine has good compression, you can get the propeller to stop and it will remain stopped unless you then exceed about 80-140 MPH depending on engine compression and a few other engine drag parameters. Of course this is all dependent on the fact that you are high enough to make doing this sufficiently worthwhile to possibly make the only dry land anywhere around, or some such. If other emergency landing spots are within reach that you have a reasonable chance of living over, do that instead.
The point being, if the engine is no longer producing power but is on the airframe, propeller ‘removed’ is best, ‘feathered’ is next best, ‘stopped’ is next and, ‘high’ pitch (coarse) is next and then the rest… :wink:

The differences do not need fine instruments to detect. They are large and obvious.

Been there, done that…

Do you have a sample of that that can be viewed? I’m getting wide eyes just thinking about it… :eek:

The Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 fan blade-off test is public info, perhaps because it’s pretty mild-looking compared to others. That’s the engine on the A380, the world’s largest airliner.

Not sure what this one is, maybe the Trent 900, but it looks cooler.

Bird-ingestion test videos are cool in the way snuff flicks are cool. Like this one.

Wow, that second one is pretty amazing. I find it quite amazint that the blade right behind the one that is released manages to deform as much as it does, yet stays attached.

It’s a good thing when I fly, I don’t think of these things happening. It’s also good to know that others have already thought of it and designed with it in mind. :slight_smile: