# "An End To the Ban on Gun-Violence Studies"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 13, 2013, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032 "2013-01-13T04:20:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032/81 "2013-01-17T17:37:57Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > It is not a matter of decorum. It is a matter off poisoning the debate by deliberately antagonizing one’s opponents. > A certain amount of that occurs in most debates, but deliberate efforts to kill the discussion through vitriol have always been Moderated against. > > [/Moderating] _sigh_ OK, acknowledged and accepted. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032/82 "2013-01-17T17:59:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, that’s hardly an issue with the CDC. CDC should be collecting data that is shared for others to use in their research - absolutely. They should also fund research by others using their data set. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032/83 "2013-01-17T21:29:26Z")
Ah! So research should be properly conducted and vetted? I doubt anyone disagrees with that, but if anyone does, we will alert you. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032/84 "2013-01-17T22:25:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So it’s not exactly a censorship-ban on anyone studying the subject, but it is a ban on government-funded studies by the Centers for Disease Control. Which is almost as bad. Yeah this surprised me too. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t follow. I do want existing laws enforced. In the case of the ones that block the CDC from conducting research into guns, that’s because I don’t believe they’ll do so without letting their personal biases creep into it. So you don’t think SCIENTISTS can be objective? You know the CDC is filled with active military folks, right? > [@Algher](#): > > You appear to be dangerously close to simply accepting all academic research as pure as the driven snow, with no need for any questioning once it has gone through peer review. Yeah pretty much. Once other experts in teh field have lookeda t it and passed on it, its hard for me (a layman) to contradict it based on my gut feelings. Sure peer review can fail and bias can creep in but it is FAR less common in a peer reviewed setting than otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032/85 "2013-01-17T23:30:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Ah! So research should be properly conducted and vetted? I doubt anyone disagrees with that, but if anyone does, we will alert you. Is there a reason you have taken this tone with me in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032/86 "2013-01-17T23:54:02Z")
Yes, indeed, its because you offered the insinuation that because so many academics are of a liberal persuasion, that renders their work suspect. Whether you offer this because you think progressives are inherently less intelligent than conservatives, or less honest, is not a concern. Nor do you offer any reason to believe you beyond your personal anecdotal experience and dark suspicions. Either way, it is simply wrong. And I don’t much feel like letting you get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032/87 "2013-01-17T23:59:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Yes, indeed, its because you offered the insinuation that because so many academics are of a liberal persuasion, that renders their work suspect. Whether you offer this because you think progressives are inherently less intelligent than conservatives, or less honest, is not a concern. Nor do you offer any reason to believe you beyond your personal anecdotal experience and dark suspicions. Either way, it is simply wrong. And I don’t much feel like letting you get away with it. Gotcha. Noted, recorded, filed away with other nonsense and frivolity. Per 'luci, anything an academic says that is peer reviewed is God’s own truth, and the source should never be questioned. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032/88 "2013-01-18T00:00:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I can see this bothers you, hoss, so I’m going to try and help you out. You see, its not that progressive people are smarter, its that smart people tend to be progressive. Of course, the numbers end up the same that way, but I hope that takes some of the sting out of it. Cite the smart people tend to be progressive? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032/89 "2013-01-18T00:03:32Z")
You pointed out yourself that academics overwhelmingly lean Democratic. Just saying. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032/90 "2013-01-18T00:15:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You pointed out yourself that academics overwhelmingly lean Democratic. Just saying. 😉 Yes. That is a fact. If facts are not welcome in GD, let me know. 🙂 Now, if everyone wants to claim that party registration is irrelevant and never impacts the direction of research, that is fine. I disagree, but that what debates are all about. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032/91 "2013-01-18T00:31:54Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Cite the smart people tend to be progressive? [Here.](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095549/Right-wingers-intelligent-left-wingers-says-controversial-study--conservative-politics-lead-people-racist.html) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032/92 "2013-01-18T00:36:15Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Yes. That is a fact. If facts are not welcome in GD, let me know. > 🙂 > > Now, if everyone wants to claim that party registration is irrelevant and never impacts the direction of research, that is fine. I disagree, but that what debates are all about. The point I mentioned before is that currently the direction of research is being impacted by the party registration of the law makers. I have seen articles were the political affiliation of scientists has become so lopsided because of the current [del]inquisition[/del] opposition of Republicans to science that is inconvenient to them or their constituents. The numbers that you are seeing are also in part the result of scientists encountering that even if they are Republicans the current crop of Republican congress critters are very hostile to them. As I mentioned before, the consensus of the climate scientists on AGW is so big that it is not rare to find also Republican scientists that look at the science and report that indeed we have to reduce our emissions or face really bad consequences, they can tell you what is going on when they encounter the current Republican base. > **[Who’s Afraid of Kerry Emanuel? Why Republicans Are Attacking a Republican...](https://www.desmog.com/2012/01/19/who-s-afraid-kerry-emanuel-why-republicans-are-attacking-republican-climate-scientist/)** > > Last week, MIT climate scientist and hurricane specialist Kerry Emanuel received email threats for his view on climate change. These were quickly and appropriately condemned by the progressive and environmental blogosphere—as they are condemned by... ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032/93 "2013-01-18T00:47:36Z")
Here’s a old but pretty good read on the BS that was coming out of CDC way back then. I remember it clearly. You had a bunch of “researchers” who clearly, and sometimes admittedly, had personal biases against guns, and spewed out one junk “study” after another to support their agendas. This stuff was so bad it would have been laughable, if it wasn’t being used to strip people of their rights. Finally Congress got sick of it and pretty much said “no more agenda-driven BS masquerading as research on the taxpayers’ dime.” Really. This stuff was so bad, I’m convinced that it’s one of the reasons that lots of conservatives don’t trust “research” and science today. > **[Public Health Pot Shots](https://reason.com/1997/04/01/public-health-pot-shots/)** > > How the CDC succumbed to the Gun "Epidemic" ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032/94 "2013-01-18T01:40:41Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > Here’s a old but pretty good read on the BS that was coming out of CDC way back then. I remember it clearly. You had a bunch of “researchers” who clearly, and sometimes admittedly, had personal biases against guns, and spewed out one junk “study” after another to support their agendas. This stuff was so bad it would have been laughable, if it wasn’t being used to strip people of their rights. Finally Congress got sick of it and pretty much said “no more agenda-driven BS masquerading as research on the taxpayers’ dime.” > > Really. This stuff was so bad, I’m convinced that it’s one of the reasons that lots of conservatives don’t trust “research” and science today. > > [Public Health Pot Shots](http://reason.com/archives/1997/04/01/public-health-pot-shots) As a gun owner, I have these conversations with a few friends (including one at the CDC, who is in the pediatric field (mostly immunization)). The reason for their “bias” is that they only see one side of the equation. There is a lot of evidence to support the notion that a lot of successful suicide and gun related death could be avoided if there were no guns in society. They don’t see any of the benefits of having guns in society, so naturally they are as biased as the folks who see the environmental cost of oil and don’t mind living like the Amish. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032/95 "2013-01-18T01:44:32Z")
Right, and as epidemiologists they have no special insight into the negative externalities of the gun confiscation procedure, either. It’s not a proper subject for the CDC and only attracts agendas; the ban makes perfect sense. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032/96 "2013-01-18T02:06:06Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > As a gun owner, I have these conversations with a few friends (including one at the CDC, who is in the pediatric field (mostly immunization)). The reason for their “bias” is that they only see one side of the equation. > > There is a lot of evidence to support the notion that a lot of successful suicide and gun related death could be avoided if there were no guns in society. They don’t see any of the benefits of having guns in society, so naturally they are as biased as the folks who see the environmental cost of oil and don’t mind living like the Amish. That makes sense. However, as I often say “One of a man’s greatest strengths is the ability to recognize his own weaknesses.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032/97 "2013-01-18T02:58:42Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > …Now, if everyone wants to claim that party registration is irrelevant and never impacts the direction of research, that is fine… Said nobody, ever. Apparently you hope to gain some credibility be firmly rebutting the most absurd position possible. Point out for us, if you can, who said that political leaning never, ever has an impact on the direction of research. Take your time, let us now. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032/98 "2013-01-18T03:01:35Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Right, and as epidemiologists they have no special insight into the negative externalities of the gun confiscation procedure, either. It’s not a proper subject for the CDC and only attracts agendas; the ban makes perfect sense. Just guessing here, don’t really know what you mean by “negative externalities of the gun confiscation procedure”, but I get the creepy feeling you mean something like the casualties that would result from jackboot injuries. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032/99 "2013-01-18T03:18:24Z")
So now party registration Should be considered? Think on this. You appear to be confused as to what side you are taking. Or so someone might infer. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032/100 "2013-01-18T03:22:32Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Said nobody, ever. Apparently you hope to gain some credibility be firmly rebutting the most absurd position possible. Point out for us, if you can, who said that political leaning never, ever has an impact on the direction of research. Take your time, let us now. Gee - maybe because that is what you inferred. Are you now stating that political leanings can have an impact on research? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-end-to-the-ban-on-gun-violence-studies/647032.md?page=6)