# An example of what's wrong with GD moderation. **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [December 12, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771 "2019-12-12T18:40:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771/21 "2019-12-13T19:07:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > “_Most of us_”? :dubious: Speak for \*yourself \*buddy, not for 'most of us" . You’re not speaking for _me._ > [@DrDeth](#): > > I agree here with Max. Posts should never, ever be moved to the pit. Close them or no, there is no Pit option. Posters have been saying this for quite some time. Pot, kettle. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771/22 "2019-12-13T19:17:36Z")
Most of us are kettles. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771/23 "2019-12-13T19:52:21Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > “_Most of us_”? :dubious: Speak for \*yourself \*buddy, not for 'most of us" . You’re not speaking for _me._ Agree 100%. There are 3400+ active members, how can **BigT** claim to speak for most of us? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771/24 "2019-12-13T19:57:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Note that \*\*Jonathan Chance \*\*_didn’t_ use that “First they came for the…” argument. Where on earth did you get that? Do you understand the meaning of the word “essentially”? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771/25 "2019-12-13T20:01:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It’s nice that you may think that a rant is trolling. It’s not. It’s…\* a rant\*. That’s not trolling. Now sure, rants dont belong in GD, so that thread should have been closed. An inflammatory political rant _purposely_ posted in GD\* is \*trolling. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771/26 "2019-12-13T20:02:49Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Agree 100%. There are 3400+ active members, how can **BigT** claim to speak for most of us? **BigT** has my proxy. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771/27 "2019-12-13T20:03:53Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Most of us are kettles. But I’m pretty sure kayaker is a pot, if memory serves. I’m not against moving threads to the Pit but maybe a mod note to the effect of “don’t post rants with no argument in GD or Elections”, so at least you can justifiably warn them if it turns into a habit. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771/28 "2019-12-13T20:05:58Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Pot, kettle. I, for one, [DEL]welcome our new insect overlords[/DEL] agree with the crux of **BigT** ’s post: I don’t think **Jonathan Chance** addressed an accusation of trolling in the OP. He appeared to address a straw-man argument. I don’t think he was being disrespectful in doing so. I don’t think **MrDibble** made an accusation of trolling for **Jonathan Chance** to rebut. And if he did, I think it would be wise to pretend that he didn’t. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771/29 "2019-12-13T20:07:46Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > **BigT** has my proxy. I’ve erased 3 separate jokes here. I’ll leave it alone. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771/30 "2019-12-13T20:49:36Z")
I don’t know the official definition of trolling, but I concur that it seems “trollish” to post something you would know was inflammatory, backed by no argument, in Great Debates – and then not engage in any debate. Coming back to ignore questions and just restate the inflammatory thing, again with no actual argument. It seems like a stretch to me to see that and think, oh, bless, he just accidentally posted a rant in GD, and then came back, and was so full of rant that he didn’t ask for it to be moved, or change tactics and just engage the debate, he could only keep repeating his OP “rant.” ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771/31 "2019-12-13T21:02:44Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > I don’t know the official definition of trolling, but I concur that it seems “trollish” to post something you would know was inflammatory, backed by no argument, in Great Debates – and then not engage in any debate. Coming back to ignore questions and just restate the inflammatory thing, again with no actual argument. > > It seems like a stretch to me to see that and think, oh, bless, he just accidentally posted a rant in GD, and then came back, and was so full of rant that he didn’t ask for it to be moved, or change tactics and just engage the debate, he could only keep repeating his OP “rant.” Again, I’m not saying anybody has accused **EasyPhil** of trolling, but if they had, it is worth noting that **EasyPhil** did not make any posts on this message board between the original post of that thread (9:09am my time) and **Jonathan Chance** ’s move to the Pit (10:35am my time). An hour may not be long enough to determine that **EasyPhil** isn’t interested in debate. Using his comments or continued participation after the thread was moved to the Pit as an indication of being disinterested in actual debate doesn’t seem fair, either. I personally like to create debate threads with nothing but the question and sources in the original post. That way the thread itself isn’t all about me and my opinion (it usually ends up doing that anyways, unfortunately). In a separate post I post my opinion. But unlike **EasyPhil** , I try and keep my opinion out of the original post, too. ETA: Also, [“What is a troll?”](https://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1764/what-is-a-troll/) on the Straight Dope Archives ~Max ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771/32 "2019-12-13T22:00:08Z")
> [@](#): > > I personally like to create debate threads with nothing but the question and sources in the original post. That way the thread itself isn’t all about me and my opinion (it usually ends up doing that anyways, unfortunately). In a separate post I post my opinion. One may find this type of start a decent approach to launching a debate, but the idea of ‘great debates’ involves making more effort so as to at least clarify the framework for the discussion. Scanty OP’s don’t make ‘great debates’ material, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771/33 "2019-12-13T22:08:31Z")
> [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > One may find this type of start a decent approach to launching a debate, but the idea of ‘great debates’ involves making more effort so as to at least clarify the framework for the discussion. Scanty OP’s don’t make ‘great debates’ material, in my opinion. I agree. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771/34 "2019-12-13T22:09:55Z")
I’ve started GD threads about things I’m uncertain about [like this](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=875688) or [this](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=858100) or [this](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=835051). But it’s more than a link: it’s giving some background to an issue, possibly with a link, and setting up the issue to be discussed, often with some of my thoughts and why I’m uncertain. That is, I think, way different from the “Vague link and over-the-top assertion” method that’s being criticized here. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771/35 "2019-12-13T22:17:32Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’ve started GD threads about things I’m uncertain about [like this](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=875688) or [this](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=858100) or [this](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=835051). But it’s more than a link: it’s giving some background to an issue, possibly with a link, and setting up the issue to be discussed, often with some of my thoughts and why I’m uncertain. > > That is, I think, way different from the “Vague link and over-the-top assertion” method that’s being criticized here. Agree with this, too. But if **EasyPhil** had instead posted an op like this, I think the thread would have been fine for GD: **Is Adam Schiff a known liar? Should he be removed as head of the IC?** \*Has Adam Schiff been proven to be a liar? Has Schiff’s memo rebuttal to Nunes’s memo has been shown to be false thanks to the IG report? [Schiff Memo](https://www.vox.com/2018/2/24/17048764/schiff-memo-nunes-read-full-text-pdf) [IG Report](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=26&ved=2ahUKEwjQw6DwpLDmAhUphuAKHf8WCLQQFjAZegQIBxAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fjustice.gov%2Fstorage%2F120919-examination.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3y7zu7Baw34PR5JHcQ9E-l) There’s no excuse if Schiff did lie, he had access to the same information as Nunes which means he knows better but still lied to the American people. If he lied, Schiff has no credibility and should be removed as the chairmen of that committee.\* And then one of the first responses, I imagine, would be: _No and no. Why would you think he lied?_ After which the burden is on the OP or any white knights to argue that Schiff was a liar. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771/36 "2019-12-13T22:37:48Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Pot, kettle. I didnt say “all” or “most” posters have been saying it, but yes, some have, right here in this thread, in fact. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771/37 "2019-12-14T06:05:55Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I personally like to create debate threads with nothing but the question and sources in the original post. That way the thread itself isn’t all about me and my opinion That’s not how Great Debates works. Many people hate it when the OP doesn’t give their own opinion. For one thing, not doing so makes it a lot easier to use “Oh, I was only playing Devil’s advocate” or “I was Just Asking Questions” when called out for an odious OP. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771/38 "2019-12-14T06:08:31Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Agree with this, too. But if **EasyPhil** had instead posted an op like this, I think the thread would have been fine for GD Actually, I think it would have been fine for **Elections**. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771/39 "2019-12-14T06:29:15Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s not how Great Debates works. Many people hate it when the OP doesn’t give their own opinion. > … Oh, yes, I agree there. That post was out of place in GD. Bad Op for that forum. But it wasnt trolling. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771/40 "2019-12-14T11:24:21Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Yes, we get that. But people trolling \*\*do \*\*make them a troll. > > The mods have historically been reluctant to call trolling behavior trolling behavior. Lots of us have never understood that. That argument is a bit ‘No True Scotsman’ isn’t it? One man’s troll is another man’s guru. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-example-of-whats-wrong-with-gd-moderation/844771.md?page=3)