# An exerpt from my talk with my fundie brother **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 20, 2003, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204 "2003-12-20T20:21:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BellaDellaItalia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@BellaDellaItalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellaDellaItalia)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204/21 "2003-12-21T17:17:32Z")
No human sacrifices. You seem to have Christians confused with Aztecs. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204/22 "2003-12-21T17:23:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BellaDellaItalia \* > \*\*No human sacrifices. You seem to have Christians confused with Aztecs. \*\* No, my 9 x great grandmother was definitely hung for witchcraft in Salem, Massachusetts in 1692. By Christians. Not Aztecs. Cotton and Increase Mather. Not even Aztec names. ---
**Author:** ![BellaDellaItalia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@BellaDellaItalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellaDellaItalia)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204/23 "2003-12-21T17:29:05Z")
Forget murder, who in thier right mind would name a child Cotton? This is a topic worth discussing, people. ---
**Author:** ![skeptic\_ev](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@skeptic\_ev](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skeptic_ev)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204/24 "2003-12-21T17:32:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Weren’t these rules only for the Israelites of the time? Yes, up until we were redeemed by Christ’s ransom. (Orthodox Jews, obviously, do not believe this and practice strict observance of the Mosaic Law.) However, the basic meaning of Lev. 18:22 (unlike, say, the injunction to not boil a kid in its mother’s milk) is found in the Christian Greek scriptures (aka New Testament) as well and thus still applies. To be fair, what is often not brought up by people using the Bible to condemn homosexuality is that plain old fornication and adultery are verboten as well; therefore, many people who use the Bible to point fingers at gay people would be well-advised to keep in mind, as the saying goes, that three fingers are pointing right back at them. ---
**Author:** ![skeptic\_ev](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@skeptic\_ev](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skeptic_ev)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204/25 "2003-12-21T17:34:37Z")
> [@](#): > > No, my 9 x great grandmother was definitely hung for witchcraft in Salem, Massachusetts in 1692. By Christians. Not Aztecs. Cotton and Increase Mather. Not even Aztec names. Not that that was the right thing to do, **Qadgop** , but I believe that was capital punishment, not a human sacrifice. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204/26 "2003-12-21T18:01:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by skeptic\_ev \* > \*\*Not that that was the right thing to do, **Qadgop** , but I believe that was capital punishment, not a human sacrifice. \*\* This case seems like a distinction without a difference. In the witchcraft trials _and_ the Aztec sacrifices a supernatural entity was being placated. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204/27 "2003-12-21T18:48:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shade \* > \*\*You stopped at the good bit! What did your brother say next?? \*\* From there it became a discussion of his **Theory Which Debunks Everything Everyone Else Believes In[sup]TM[/sup]**. This is the theory which made him decide that he was a Quaker and an Anarchist. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204/28 "2003-12-21T18:55:54Z")
**Ashtar, Ashtar, Ashtar** , you missed a key scripture. Hit him up with[Leviticus 18:19](http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Leviticus+18%3A19&NIV_version=yes&language=english&x=6&y=11), 'Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period." This is 4 verses before the verse cited when deeming homosexuality immoral. Please note that there is nothing which indicates a man is cleared if he’s not aware the woman he’s approaching is menstruating. I’ll also point out that Leviticus 18:29 says, "'Everyone who does any of these detestable things-such persons must be cut off from their people. " In other words, not only the obvious no-no’s such as incest, adultery and homosexuality out, so is asking to have sex during that time of the month. How many people has your brother’s church cast out for what amounts to bad timing? Sheesh! Do us liberal Christians have to do everything for you?😉 Seriously, while we may clash at times, feel free to tell your brother that you know at least one Christian who prefers the company of Atheists like you to that of Christians like him. Oh, and for anyone who knits, I highly recommend Lion Brand’s Wool-Ease yarn, a wool/acrylic blend CJ ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204/29 "2003-12-21T20:09:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by skeptic\_ev \* > Yes, up until we were redeemed by Christ’s ransom… I have often heard this sort of statement, that is, the New Testament negated, reversed, or modified some laws of the Old Testament. But is there an exact biblical quote that says so, or is it a theological interpretation? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204/30 "2003-12-21T20:26:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Siege \* > **Seriously, while we may clash at times, feel free to tell your brother that you know at least one Christian who prefers the company of Atheists like you to that of Christians like him.** Just to be clear, I consider myself a Christian. I just don’t like quote mining from the Bible. My brother means well, I just think he’s searching. It’s like he dipped his toe in the Ocean of Enlightenment, but is telling everyone he went swimming. ---
**Author:** ![IrreverentTone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@IrreverentTone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IrreverentTone)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204/31 "2003-12-21T20:26:56Z")
Geez, my great uncle did in **Qadgop’s** great grandma. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204/32 "2003-12-21T20:34:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lord Ashtar \* > My brother means well, I just think he’s searching. It’s like he dipped his toe in the Ocean of Enlightenment, but is telling everyone he went swimming. Great. We need some more swimmers on New Year’s Day. Tell him to come dip in the rest of his body with the [Jacksonport Polar Bears](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=226035). ---
**Author:** ![Beltane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@Beltane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beltane)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204/33 "2003-12-21T21:39:21Z")
There is always this little snippet from Leviticus:15, for those who are really concerned with the whole cleanliness aspect: And if any man’s seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even. 17 And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even. 18 The woman also with whom man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the even. 19 And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. 20 And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean. 21 And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. 22 And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. 23 And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even. 24 And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean. 25 And if a woman have an issue of her blood many days out of the time of her separation, or if it run beyond the time of her separation; all the days of the issue of her uncleanness shall be as the days of her separation: she shall be unclean. 26 Every bed whereon she lieth all the days of her issue shall be unto her as the bed of her separation: and whatsoever she sitteth upon shall be unclean, as the uncleanness of her separation. 27 And whosoever toucheth those things shall be unclean, and shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. 28 But if she be cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean. 29 And on the eighth day she shall take unto her two turtles, or two young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 30 And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD for the issue of her uncleanness. 3 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204/34 "2003-12-21T21:47:14Z")
> [@](#): > > **BellaDellaItalia** : Forget murder, who in thier right mind would name a child Cotton? Someone who wanted to impress on them how extra-bad it would be for them to diddle their sister, Polly Esther? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204/35 "2003-12-21T21:54:07Z")
. . . I’m beginning to see where we go the association of “sex” with “dirty” . . . ---
**Author:** ![Mines\_Mystique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mines\_Mystique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mines_Mystique)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204/36 "2003-12-21T21:54:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Musicat \* > \*\*I have often heard this sort of statement, that is, the New Testament negated, reversed, or modified some laws of the Old Testament. But is there an exact biblical quote that says so, or is it a theological interpretation? \*\* This is the way some people believe. I don’t happen too, because of the fact that Jesus still observed the law while he was on earth. Also, I believe that Christ was the ultimate fulfillment of the law. He provided the ulitmate sacrifice so that the sacrifices of the Old Testament did not have to be performed anymore. That’s my belief. Andrew ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204/37 "2003-12-21T22:41:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mines Mystique \* > Also, I believe that Christ was the ultimate fulfillment of the law. He provided the ulitmate sacrifice so that the sacrifices of the Old Testament did not have to be performed anymore. Yeah, that sounds exactly what I was taught as a child by well-meaning adults. But is there any justification from biblical text whatsoever? Please don’t think I am being overly-pedantic about this. Most of “God’s Laws” that I was taught when young had SOME kind of biblical-source justification, however tenuous. Even as a kid, I think I would have rebelled if there was no apparent authority behind a minister’s statement. Example: From the biblical quote of “Your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost,” ([1 Cor 6:19](http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/1cor/6.html)) using what passed for logic to them, my family derived such proscriptions as no alcohol, you must eat right, and it is wrong to get a tattoo, since it would be unthinkable to violate a religious shrine in that manner. RE: Leviticus 15 as quoted by **Beltane** Talk about obsessive-compulsive! Although since when that was written, the germ theory of disease didn’t exist, so any attempt at hygiene was probably a step in the right direction, health-wise. **Lord Ashtar** , here are some questions you might ask your Fundie Brother. I take no credit for this, it is a direct quote from a **West Wing** episode, said by President Bartlett to some fundies who had invaded the pseudo-White House: > [@](#): > > I’m interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She’s a Georgetown sophmore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be? > > While thinking about that, can I ask another? My Chief of Staff Leo McGarry insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or is it OK to call the police? > > Here’s one that’s really important because we’ve got a lot of sports fans in this town: touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean (Leviticus 11:7). If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? > > Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204/38 "2003-12-21T23:12:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mines Mystique \* > But for this one, you also have to look at the next few verses. God told Abraham to stop and provided a ram for him to sacrifice before Isaac was killed. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by BellaDellaItalia_ > No, no, no, listen. God asked Abraham to kill his son as sacrifice as a test. He just wanted to see if Abraham was willing to give up his son for Him and His will. One of the reasons I’m not a Christian is that I despise a God who wants fathers to be ready to murder their children as an ‘offering’. BellaDellaItalia, Are you a Christian? Would you be ready to kill your child for God? Do you think this is a good test of anything? What sort of God demands this? How did Abraham explain it to Isaac afterwards? ---
**Author:** ![BellaDellaItalia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@BellaDellaItalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellaDellaItalia)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204/39 "2003-12-21T23:34:14Z")
**glee** , I am a Christian, and have no children, save a much-younger brother. Please don’t imply that I must be a terrible coldhearted person because I choose to put God first in my life. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204/40 "2003-12-22T00:09:31Z")
So you _would_ kill your child if you felt God was telling you to? If you heard that someone had done so, would you support their being sent to prison, or do you think they should be allowed to do so? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-exerpt-from-my-talk-with-my-fundie-brother/220204.md?page=3)