# An extinct elephant species **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 18, 2008, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-extinct-elephant-species/445817 "2008-04-18T01:09:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2008, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-extinct-elephant-species/445817/1 "2008-04-18T01:09:15Z")
May not be extinct after all. [Borneo pygmy elephants](http://www.panda.org/news_facts/newsroom/news/press_releases/index.cfm?uNewsID=131101) may be descendants of Javan elephants given as gifts between rulers and gone native. ---
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2008, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-extinct-elephant-species/445817/2 "2008-04-18T02:49:16Z")
Wow, thanks for that. Love elephant news: they are such smart beasts of burden,have worked hard for us humans, and we are now understanding their complexity. These guys are so small. What is their heritage? ---
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2008, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-extinct-elephant-species/445817/3 "2008-04-18T02:57:07Z")
Missed the edit window; better question:Why did these elephants go diminutive, with a race that is generally mammoth by definition? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2008, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-extinct-elephant-species/445817/4 "2008-04-18T03:37:57Z")
“Pygmy” is misused. They are 2.5 meters [tall](http://www.panda.org/about_wwf/what_we_do/species/about_species/species_factsheets/elephants/asian_elephants/borneo_pygmy_elephant/index.cfm) vs 3.0 meters for your basic Asian elephant. I believe that is shoulder height rather than head height. An elephant news [link](http://www.elephant-news.com/) And the place I [visit](http://www.elephantsanctuary.org/default2.asp) and harp about here on the SDMB. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2008, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-extinct-elephant-species/445817/5 "2008-04-18T03:51:53Z")
What **elelle** said. Good elephant news always makes me happy. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-extinct-elephant-species/445817/6 "2008-04-18T15:06:07Z")
I think the most important question here, is can we breed the pygmy elephants to pot-bellied pigs, and thus achieve pot-bellied elephants? Clearly, using the big guys was a pipe dream, but now that we have a solid population of _pygmies_… ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2008, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-extinct-elephant-species/445817/7 "2008-04-18T15:41:32Z")
[QUOTE=elelle] Missed the edit window; better question:Why did these elephants go diminutive, with a race that is generally mammoth by definition? [/QUOTE] Island biogeography. Animals tend to shrink when living on small islands (over generations) due to scarce resources, such that the smaller individuals can better survive. There were races of pygmy elephants on several Mediterranean islands until about 3-4,000 years ago, even smaller than these IIRC. [Wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_elephant) ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2008, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-extinct-elephant-species/445817/8 "2008-04-18T17:01:22Z")
Go elephants! ---
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-extinct-elephant-species/445817/9 "2008-04-20T03:35:42Z")
[QUOTE=John DiFool] Island biogeography. Animals tend to shrink when living on small islands (over generations) due to scarce resources, such that the smaller individuals can better survive. There were races of pygmy elephants on several Mediterranean islands until about 3-4,000 years ago, even smaller than these IIRC. [Wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_elephant) [/QUOTE] Thanks for that, John. An ace answer, and expanded my elephant knowledge,always a good thing in this sweet world! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-extinct-elephant-species/445817/10 "2008-04-20T03:57:00Z")
[QUOTE=John DiFool] There were races of pygmy elephants on several Mediterranean islands until about 3-4,000 years ago, even smaller than these IIRC. [/QUOTE] These aren’t terribly small; 2.5 meters vs 3 meters for you Basic Asian Elephant. What size were these Mediterranean guys? ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-extinct-elephant-species/445817/11 "2008-04-20T04:00:13Z")
The Wiki article states a mass of 200 kg, about twice a full grown human male. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-extinct-elephant-species/445817/12 "2008-04-20T04:19:41Z")
One wonders if the Borneo elephants are continuing to evolve to a smaller size. If so, it seems that it would take a while for this to be a useful adaptation. A lack of food would be a rather immediate obstacle. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-extinct-elephant-species/445817/13 "2008-04-20T04:40:10Z")
[QUOTE=John DiFool] The Wiki article states a mass of 200 kg, about twice a full grown human male. [/QUOTE] For comparison, [Miss Betts](http://www.elephantsanctuary.org/bios/african.asp) (scroll to the bottom of the page) weighs 500 pounds (227 Kg), and one of the keepers said on visitors day, “…it’s all muscle. It took six of us to get that little lady down here.” (263 Lbs was her birth weight. Shes was four months old at the time of the “six of us” comment.) ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-extinct-elephant-species/445817/14 "2008-04-20T08:16:36Z")
[QUOTE=John DiFool] Island biogeography. Animals tend to shrink when living on small islands (over generations) due to scarce resources, such that the smaller individuals can better survive. There were races of pygmy elephants on several Mediterranean islands until about 3-4,000 years ago, even smaller than these IIRC. [Wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_elephant) [/QUOTE] I notice that the wiki article mentions the [pygmy mammoth](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmy_Mammoth) formerly inhabiting our local Channel Islands. Heh, pygmy mammoths, sort of like jumbo shrimp. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2008, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-extinct-elephant-species/445817/15 "2008-04-20T09:41:02Z")
[QUOTE=elelle] Wow, thanks for that. Love elephant news: they are such smart beasts of burden,have worked hard for us humans, and we are now understanding their complexity. These guys are so small. What is their heritage? [/QUOTE] [Well, a long, long time ago, they were amphibious.](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080416221459.htm) > [@](#): > > The scientists were investigating the lifestyle of two early elephants (proboscideans) Moeritherium and Barytherium that lived in the Eocene period, over 37 million years ago. By analysing isotopes in tooth enamel from Moeritherium they were able to deduce that it was very likely a semi-aquatic mammal, spending its days in water eating freshwater plants.‘