# "An historic..." vs "A historic" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 21, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357 "2009-01-21T21:16:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HolyFreakingMoly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7ba0ec/32.png) [@HolyFreakingMoly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HolyFreakingMoly)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/1 "2009-01-21T21:16:26Z")
Forgive me if this is the wrong forum… I’m still not quite sure of each forum and it’s intended purpose. Anyway, “An historic…” irks the hell out of me. “An” is to be used with words starting with a vowel. “Historic” doesn’t qualify and the H isn’t silent so it doesn’t even qualify in that respect. It is A historic event, not an historic event. Anyone else find this annoying? I live in a place where a town named “Humble” is pronounced “Umble” and those same people pronounce it the same way when referring to a state of humility! ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/2 "2009-01-21T22:14:02Z")
Yes, it’s annoying. You can say “an 'istoric” or “a historic,” but **not** “an historic.” At least not unless you’re a pretentious twat. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/3 "2009-01-21T22:22:32Z")
> [@HolyFreakingMoly](#): > > “An” is to be used with words starting with a vowel. Actually, with words starting with a vowel **sound**. It’s a critical distinction. There is justification for saying “an 'istoric,” where the H becomes silent due to the stress on the following syllable, and in line with that the phrase is sometimes written as “an historic.” Some people read that and, ignorant of how it is meant to be pronounced, say “an” **AND** aspirate the H, which is wrong. “A historic event” is acceptable usage, and is the most common. However, “an historic event,” written as “an historic event” and pronounced as “an 'istoric event,” is also acceptable usage. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/4 "2009-01-21T22:27:27Z")
[This page](http://www.betterwritingskills.com/tip-w005.html) sums it up nicely. ---
**Author:** ![Litoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@Litoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Litoris)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/5 "2009-01-21T22:49:54Z")
Pretentious twat checking in – I was taught that even if the “h” is pronounced, “an” is always used in front of h-words. FWIW, I went to school in TN, starting kindergarten in 1977, graduating in 1990 – not one teacher in those years said it was acceptable to use “a” in front of an h-word. It grates my nerves to hear “a historic” almost as much as hearing a sentence that ends in a preposition. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/6 "2009-01-21T22:57:10Z")
I will never consider “an historic” to be correct. I don’t take “an history exam” or hear women talking about having “an hysterectomy” or bet on “an horse” at the track. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/7 "2009-01-21T23:01:45Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#): > > I will never consider “an historic” to be correct. I don’t take “an history exam” or hear women talking about having “an hysterectomy” or bet on “an horse” at the track. But is thirty minutes half a hour? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/8 "2009-01-21T23:02:00Z")
> [@Litoris](#): > > FWIW, I went to school in TN, starting kindergarten in 1977, graduating in 1990 – not one teacher in those years said it was acceptable to use “a” in front of an h-word. Yeah, but why should we listen to you when it took you 13 years to pass kindergarten? ---
**Author:** ![HolyFreakingMoly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7ba0ec/32.png) [@HolyFreakingMoly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HolyFreakingMoly)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/9 "2009-01-21T23:04:46Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > But is thirty minutes half a hour? I hadn’t considered that one… I do say half AN hour… > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Yeah, but why should we listen to you when it took you 13 years to pass kindergarten? Thanks… Spit coffee all over my computer. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/10 "2009-01-21T23:17:52Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > But is thirty minutes half a hour? Of course not. The h in hour is silent. An honest question, an honorable mention, etc. follow the rule. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Superhero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Superhero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Superhero)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/11 "2009-01-21T23:36:43Z")
I was highly amused by the recent ads CBS ran promoting William Peterson’s final “CSI” episode. At first, they were referring to it as, “A historical television event,” implying that it had already happened. Someone mentioned to them, apparently, that the word usage was wrong, so they changed the ad. It subsequently referred to the episode as, “an historic television event.” ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/12 "2009-01-22T00:02:41Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#): > > I don’t take “an history exam” or hear women talking about having “an hysterectomy” or bet on “an horse” at the track. And no one is suggesting using “an” with those words - you’re making a straw man. It would behoove you to learn what it is you’re ranting about, so as not to make foolish comparisons. The initial H can become silent, and thus require the word “an,” for some speakers **WHEN** : the word has **three** or more syllables **and** the stress is on the **second** syllable. “Historic” fits these parameters, the words you mentioned do not. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/13 "2009-01-22T00:15:02Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > And no one is suggesting using “an” with those words - you’re making a straw man. It would behoove you to learn what it is you’re ranting about, so as not to make foolish comparisons. > > The initial H can become silent, and thus require the word “an,” for some speakers **WHEN** : the word has **three** or more syllables **and** the stress is on the **second** syllable. “Historic” fits these parameters, the words you mentioned do not. Where did the second syllable rule (my underlining) come from? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/14 "2009-01-22T00:17:50Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > And no one is suggesting using “an” with those words - you’re making a straw man. It would behoove you to learn what it is you’re ranting about, so as not to make foolish comparisons. Reread post #5 ---
**Author:** ![seodoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@seodoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seodoa)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/15 "2009-01-22T00:20:43Z")
Both are acceptable in this case and it is a matter of personal preference which you use. > [@](#): > > It grates my nerves to hear “a historic” almost as much as hearing a sentence that ends in a preposition. And it grates my nerves to hear people still dusting off this tired old “rule.” English is not Latin. We sometimes put prepositions at the end of our sentences. Do you honestly hear people saying “With whom did you go to the party?” “From where (or the even more twee, _Whence_) did you come?” in informal speech? If you do, give them a punch in the crotch, they deserve it. Cites FTW: [1](http://www.ling.udel.edu/colin/courses/ling101_f99/lecture2.html) [2](http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/p.html#prepositions) Also, tired joke time (to go with the tired rules): A student asks his classmate, “What did you do that for?” The teacher, hearing this, corrects him, “Never end your sentence with a proposition.” The student sighs, turns back to the classmate and rephrases: “What did you do that for, huh?” ---
**Author:** ![Litoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@Litoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Litoris)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/16 "2009-01-22T01:55:00Z")
**Vinyl Turnip** , it is TN, 13 years in kindergarten is half the normal 😃 **seodoa** , actually, yes I do hear people say “with whom” and “from where” – granted not all the time, and granted mostly only within my own family and social circle, but it is still said. The greatest thing about the English language is that it is ever-evolving, and that those of us who enjoy the antiquated rules can still use them. The best part of being human is the ability to have a different opinion/perspective from other humans. I also loathe when people default to “\ and I” because they don’t understand that “\ and me” is sometimes actually correct. It’s how I feel, if that grates on your nerves, that’s fine with me, because I don’t have to be around you and vice versa. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/17 "2009-01-22T01:56:58Z")
> [@Litoris](#): > > Pretentious twat checking in – I was taught that even if the “h” is pronounced, “an” is always used in front of h-words. > > FWIW, I went to school in TN, starting kindergarten in 1977, graduating in 1990 – not one teacher in those years said it was acceptable to use “a” in front of an h-word. It grates my nerves to hear “a historic” almost as much as hearing a sentence that ends in a preposition. Me too- I can’t say or type “a historic” at all. Not the first time I’ll be a pretentious twat, or the last, I’m sure… ---
**Author:** ![seodoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@seodoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seodoa)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/18 "2009-01-22T02:10:06Z")
> [@Litoris](#): > > **Vinyl Turnip** , it is TN, 13 years in kindergarten is half the normal 😃 > > **seodoa** , actually, yes I do hear people say “with whom” and “from where” – granted not all the time, and granted mostly only within my own family and social circle, but it is still said. The greatest thing about the English language is that it is ever-evolving, and that those of us who enjoy the antiquated rules can still use them. The best part of being human is the ability to have a different opinion/perspective from other humans. I also loathe when people default to “\ and I” because they don’t understand that “\ and me” is sometimes actually correct. It’s how I feel, if that grates on your nerves, that’s fine with me, because I don’t have to be around you and vice versa. 😉 The fact that someone says these things doesn’t grate my nerves as much as someone complaining that others don’t. You can use your language anyway you want to use it and that is your prerogative. But please don’t complain when others use their language the way they want. As for the punch in the crotch, that, along with everything else I say on the Interbutts, is best taken with a few grains of salt. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/19 "2009-01-22T02:12:39Z")
I was taught that if the “h” is in an accented syllable, it takes “a”; if it’s unaccented, it takes “an”. So it’s “a history” and “an historical.” ---
**Author:** ![parthenokinesis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/cc9497/32.png) [@parthenokinesis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/parthenokinesis)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/20 "2009-01-22T03:01:51Z")
Not to stray too far off topic, but a similar trend I’ve noticed recently is to replace the “h” sound with a “y” sound in HU words like humor or huge (yumor or yuge) Is this just a broadcasting thing to keep breath noises off the mike? Cause it’s certainly driving me a bit crazy listening to it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357.md?page=2)