# "An historic..." vs "A historic" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 21, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357 "2009-01-21T21:16:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![seodoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@seodoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seodoa)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/41 "2009-01-23T05:38:44Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > The variant I heard (a long time ago) goes like this: > > Southern tourist at Harvard University, accosting a student (and speaking in something of a drawl): “Excuse me son, but could you tell me where Widener’s Library is at?” > Student (in a very cultured voice): “Sir: at Harvard one learns not to end a sentence with a preposition.” > Tourist: “Pardon - allow me to rephrase that: Could you tell me where Widener’s Library is at, asshole?” Oo, I like that one, better. A bit of the ol’ potty mouth goes a long way in comedy. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/42 "2009-01-23T11:24:58Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > **lobotomyboy63** , I feel I was unduly snarky. I regret it, and I apologize. Thanks. > [@Gary\_T](#): > > [I’ll try to shed light on the points you’ve raised. > > Yes, he did, and I ignored it. Frankly, I was incredulous. I’ve been in Tennessee, I’ve had an interest in and an ear to language for my fifty-some years, and never heard nor seen any reference to what **Litoris** described. Now I wasn’t there, and it may be an accurate account, but I still can’t believe it. Essentially I was saying, “If we don’t count **Litoris** , no one is suggesting…” I’ve never heard anyone go that far, either. I don’t think the issue was even raised in my English classes. It sounds like something more ESL based, for people learning the language…but I’ve seen English texts that admonish against really strange things (the difference between subscription and prescription, for instance). [quote=“Gary\_T, post:40, topic:482357”] The link I posted earlier was merely to explain why “an historic” is sometimes used and accepted. The mention of the second syllable came from memory, but I have found reference to it. From [here](http://www.helium.com/items/853072-should-we-use-the-word-an-or-a-in-front-of-the-word-historic): _However, there is a group of words of three or more syllables with the stress on the second syllable, such as historic, historical, hypothesis, hysterical, habitual, harmonica and hereditary, where people tended to keep using “an” rather than “a”._ From [here](http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:zyMJgYbiKYoJ:www.emwa.org/JournalArticles/JA_V16_I3_Reeves2.pdf+%22an+historic%22+rule+second+syllable+stress&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=16&gl=us): _…I have seen a ‘rule’ in a USA grammar book that you say an historic occasion because the stress is on the second syllable in the word historic, whereas you say a his-tory book because the stress is on the first syllable in the word history…_ I figured there has to be some “rule” (or some misinterpretation of a rule) out there that makes people keep saying it the way they do. When you hear it in important speeches, you know there was a highly qualified speech writer working on it, so this can’t be just the ignorance of the masses. From your first cite, I’ve never heard “an” used with anything but historic(al). As stated upthread, if a person doesn’t pronounce an h, like “an 'istorical,” the choice would make perfect sense. Thanks for the cites. > [@Gary\_T](#): > > That’s right, bub, and you better listen up! 😃 Only room for one fool around here, and I’m…hey, wait a minute… Peace out. ---
**Author:** ![sunacres](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@sunacres](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunacres)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/43 "2009-01-23T23:18:03Z")
Ok, I’m stoned right now after a hard week teaching math to teenagers. Maybe a bourbon and soda, too. Maybe two. But gol dang isn’t this what I read the dope for? Real information about (minor, subtle, somewhat pointless-in-the-big-picture-but-sublime-in-the-small-one) topics? Mixed in with emotion, opinion, and bovine excrement? Awesome. I’m gonna keep reading. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/44 "2009-01-23T23:27:10Z")
> [@Litoris](#): > > Pretentious twat checking in – I was taught that even if the “h” is pronounced, “an” is always used in front of h-words. > > FWIW, I went to school in TN, starting kindergarten in 1977, graduating in 1990 – not one teacher in those years said it was acceptable to use “a” in front of an h-word. It grates my nerves to hear “a historic” almost as much as hearing a sentence that ends in a preposition. So you say “an hotel,” “an hospital,” and “an hope”? Weird. I went to kindergarten in 1980, graduated 8th grade in 1989, and we were always taught it was the sound that dictates whether to use “a” or “an,” not the orthography. “An historic” annoys the crap out of me, unless it’s pronounced in an accent that drops the “h,” or only very, very lightly aspirates it. I have never heard a rule that states to always use “an” in front of an h-word. The most I’ve heard is to use “an” in an h-word which is not accented on the first syllable. ---
**Author:** ![eldowan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@eldowan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eldowan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/45 "2009-01-24T00:00:34Z")
> [@HolyFreakingMoly](#): > > I live in a place where a town named “Humble” is pronounced “Umble” and those same people pronounce it the same way when referring to a state of humility! I take it you are in the Houston area then? Thats always seemed odd to me too. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357/46 "2009-01-24T19:07:06Z")
> [@Litoris](#): > > Pretentious twat checking in – I was taught that even if the “h” is pronounced, “an” is always used in front of h-words. It was in the King James Bible… but not in the past 300 years or so. > [@](#): > > FWIW, I went to school in TN, starting kindergarten in 1977, graduating in 1990 – not one teacher in those years said it was acceptable to use “a” in front of an h-word. There is urban legend about remote Appalachian hollers still speaking Elizabethan English. I think we just found one of the survival traces؟ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-historic-vs-a-historic/482357.md?page=2)