“En anglais, le “h” est toujours aspiré.”
In any case, the “an historic” usage for some reason gained currency in the UK (probably as RP), even though it doesn’t make any sense.
“En anglais, le “h” est toujours aspiré.”
In any case, the “an historic” usage for some reason gained currency in the UK (probably as RP), even though it doesn’t make any sense.
If words were spelled how they sound and they sound like they should start with a vowel, then use ‘an’. That’s how I remember it. So like “an honest opinion” and like someone already mentioned, “half an hour”.
I’ll bet you just weren’t paying attention. Have you ever, in your life, heard of anybody saying, “I gave him an helping hand?” How about “He had an hand in the success of the corporation”? How about a little kid who’s “an holy terror?”
But I sympathize, it probably was an honest mistake.
So, you would refer to “An Hispanic man”, then? “An Hassidic Rabbi”? “An Hospitable host”?
So you live in an house and wear an hat?
An horrific way to speak if you ask me.
Heh I was thinking that the only other times I’d heard this usage was “an hotel” and “an hostess”. But yeah, there’s that one too.
Anyway, I’m willing to tolerate “an historic”, since it crops up all over the place and I’m kinda used to it at this point, but don’t try to make me use it too!
I suppose it sounds different if you pronounce the “A” differently.
For example:
“Ay historical occasion”
“An historical occasion”
Both sound fine
Hopefully not in the second case, because we need to be able to distinguish between a Hassidic Rabbi and an acidic rabbi.
American Heritage Dictionary; An was also once a common variant before words beginning with h in which the first syllable was unstressed; thus 18th-century authors wrote either a historical or an historical, but a history, not an history. This usage made sense in that people often did not pronounce the initial h in words such as historical and heroic, but by the late 19th century, educated speakers were usually giving their initial h’s a huff, and the practice of writing an began to die out. Nowadays it survives primarily before the word historical. You may also come across it in the phrases an hysterectomy or an hereditary trait. These usages are acceptable in formal writing.
I would note that it says acceptable; it does not say preferred.
Chicago Manual of Style, the Associated Press and New York Times style guides all stick to the straight rule of a before consonant sounds and an before vowel sounds.
ETA: Directly addressing the OP, I find it mildly annoying in writing, but scarcely notice it in speech.
From the observation that if the main stress is on, say, the third syllable, then there is usually a secondary stress on the first syllable. This secondary stress would tend to preclude the H going silent. Apparently this is not a hard and fast rule - I can find a little reference to it on the net, but TWDuke’s info suggests it hasn’t been universally observed.
The latter is only acceptable usage if you would also say “the 'istoric event” or “today’s event is 'istorical”. You can’t change the pronunciation to fit the article you want.
I don’t how you find yourself the judge of what is acceptable and what is not, but you might want to read the info in this thread and Google on “an historic” to learn something about it. The dropping of the H is related specifically to the use of “an.” The acute brevity of the words “a” and “an” and the final N in the latter are factors here that lead some speakers to say “an 'istoric” (it rolls of the tongue more readily than “a historic”). The same factors do not apply to your examples.
Bill Walsh the International Section Copy Editor at the Washington Post conveniently organized a collection of authorities who agree with me (and him):
http://www.theslot.com/a-an.html
So it’s not just me.
Litoris did.
I’m assuming at this point you’re referring to the link that you posted, saying it “sums it up nicely” but doesn’t seem to contain that rule. Also as posted below, other words fit the parameters.
So the second syllable thing wasn’t part of the conversation, wasn’t included in your link, you haven’t introduced a cite that upholds it and apparently haven’t found one, but you were telling me it would behoove me to learn what I’m writing about before I “rant” or “make foolish comparisons” when posting? :dubious:
Is either understandable? Yes. Are both in common usage? Yes. Thus either is perfectly acceptable. There is no “one right way” in American English.
In France they have a Government board that rules on such things. Thank gawd we have no such thing in America.
Personally, I think that using “An historic” makes you sound like a twit. It’d be nice if the whole “a/an” thing was dropped, IMHO.
It’s a regional thing, not a broadcasting thing. It’s a feature of some New York City accents.
Absolutely drives me crazy.
Ignorance fought. Thank you.
The variant I heard (a long time ago) goes like this:
Southern tourist at Harvard University, accosting a student (and speaking in something of a drawl): “Excuse me son, but could you tell me where Widener’s Library is at?”
Student (in a very cultured voice): “Sir: at Harvard one learns not to end a sentence with a preposition.”
Tourist: “Pardon - allow me to rephrase that: Could you tell me where Widener’s Library is at, asshole?”
lobotomyboy63, I feel I was unduly snarky. I regret it, and I apologize.
I’ll try to shed light on the points you’ve raised.
Yes, he did, and I ignored it. Frankly, I was incredulous. I’ve been in Tennessee, I’ve had an interest in and an ear to language for my fifty-some years, and never heard nor seen any reference to what Litoris described. Now I wasn’t there, and it may be an accurate account, but I still can’t believe it. Essentially I was saying, “If we don’t count Litoris, no one is suggesting…”
The link I posted earlier was merely to explain why “an historic” is sometimes used and accepted. The mention of the second syllable came from memory, but I have found reference to it.
From here: However, there is a group of words of three or more syllables with the stress on the second syllable, such as historic, historical, hypothesis, hysterical, habitual, harmonica and hereditary, where people tended to keep using “an” rather than “a”.
From here: …I have seen a ‘rule’ in a USA grammar book that you say an historic occasion because the stress is on the second syllable in the word historic, whereas you say a his-tory book because the stress is on the first syllable in the word history…
That’s right, bub, and you better listen up! Only room for one fool around here, and I’m…hey, wait a minute…