# An honest discussion re: JW hatred **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310 "2013-10-03T23:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/181 "2013-10-04T17:39:20Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > You have not established that there is an uneven application of outrage towards JWs as opposed to outrage at other religious proselytizers who knock on peoples’ doors. > > Do you have cites that incidents of violence toward JWs in the US is greater than incidence of violence towards, for example, Mormons? How do those incidents of violence compare to incidents of violence directed at non-religious, adult, door-to-door vendors? (I’d consider children going door-to-door a separate category since most people have different tolerances towards children). What about incidents of violence towards Moonies or Hare Krishnas? Do they see more or less attacks? And what do you mean by attack, anyway? Surely people muttering to themselves after the doors close is not a comparable exhibition of hate to actual physical assault? > > Before you ask “why” an event occurs, you first need to demonstrate that it occurs the way you assert that it does. Again, re-read the OP. It’s not about violent acts. My question was about attitudes people hold, and their relative umbrage towards other, similarly disliked groups, who would seemingly be worthy of a greater degree of outrage. The only thing that thing thread has shown me, is that people are so totally blinded by their preconceptions and their own interpretation of events that they can’t imagine the perspective of a JW who has a critical mind and a skeptical heart. I see a world filled with things to be pissed off at. I just want to know why so much of that piss is directed at JW’s, when you’d think we only have so much anger to dispense in our lives, and so many other things worth being mad about. Why will so few even so much as acknowledge the words written in the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/182 "2013-10-04T17:45:33Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > Yes. And I can say that both for myself, and as a representative of the JW organization as a whole - there’s not a single JW who would disagree with me. > > That’s like saying “If you could give food to everyone in the world, would you try to?” as though the expectation that I can’t would dissuade me from trying. So let’s add this to your prior point; [QUOTE=Uber\_the\_Goober] Re: 4) we certainly don’t actively try to shut you down. Not one bit of public outrage or legislation against gays will ever stem from JW’s involvement in the political sphere. We don’t condone homosexuality, and discourage members from engaging in it, but we don’t aim to control what happens anywhere. [/QUOTE] If it’s your desire to spread your message to everyone, and if JWs encourage their members to refrain from homosexual activity, isn’t that then effectively attempting to control what happens anywhere? You seem to be saying that JWs don’t make any influence on other people because they don’t get involved in the political sphere, but they do get involved in the personal sphere. Control via conversion and influence is just as much control as political or public pressure. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/183 "2013-10-04T17:50:41Z")
Name one? Scientology, for the same reasons: they’re cultish and behave horribly to people who leave the cult. But at least we don’t have to put up with Scientologists bothering us with their mythology on the weekends. ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/184 "2013-10-04T17:50:41Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > If it’s your desire to spread your message to everyone, and if JWs encourage their members to refrain from homosexual activity, isn’t that then effectively attempting to control what happens anywhere? If it’s your desire to spread your message (that homosexuality is fine, and abortion too, and democracy is the bestest) to everyone, and if you encourage others to think thusly, isn’t that then effectively attempting to control what happens anywhere? ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/185 "2013-10-04T17:52:26Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > Name one? Scientology, for the same reasons: they’re cultish and behave horribly to people who leave the cult. But at least we don’t have to put up with Scientologists bothering us with their mythology on the weekends. That’s probably the crux of it. We’ve got better presence, as it’s our goal for you to know we’re there. Ignorance being bliss, not enough people know about the other terrible things I mentioned in the OP, or they choose to ignore them. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/186 "2013-10-04T17:54:13Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > If it’s your desire to spread your message (that homosexuality is fine, and abortion too, and democracy is the bestest) to everyone, and if you encourage others to think thusly, isn’t that then effectively attempting to control what happens anywhere? Yes, it is. I don’t happen to have that desire, personally; i’d loosely agree with those points, but I don’t feel the to try some universal proselytizing. Or majority proselytizing, for that matter. How about you with your opinions? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/187 "2013-10-04T18:15:37Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > Again, re-read the OP. > > It’s not about violent acts. My question was about attitudes people hold, and their relative umbrage towards other, similarly disliked groups, who would seemingly be worthy of a greater degree of outrage. > > The only thing that thing thread has shown me, is that people are so totally blinded by their preconceptions and their own interpretation of events that they can’t imagine the perspective of a JW who has a critical mind and a skeptical heart. I see a world filled with things to be pissed off at. I just want to know why so much of that piss is directed at JW’s, when you’d think we only have so much anger to dispense in our lives, and so many other things worth being mad about. > > Why will so few even so much as acknowledge the words written in the OP? JW’s don’t get anymore outrage and disgust than any other group of morons who bother people. I was called yesterday by a polling group and a recorded message from Glenn Beck about Obama’s health care plan. I had someone showing up at my door to sell his candidacy for local office. I find all of those things pretty much equally annoying. Leave people and you won’t be so disliked. It’s that simple. You are not being subjected to any sort of more outrage or hatred than any other group of people who do something stupid and annoying that people dislike. ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/188 "2013-10-04T18:17:23Z")
“When everyone around you is telling you it’s daytime, but all you see is night, maybe it’s you who is blind” Something tells me I’m coming across as a dick in this thread. That’s not my intention, at all. I don’t want to belittle the position of anyone else, nor do I want to provoke anger or disgust. I’m sorry for all the emotional upheaval I’ve caused (if any) and I certainly didn’t mean to condescend to anyone. Clearly the way I’ve been communicating isn’t cutting the mustard, because the ideas in my brain aren’t making it into yours - whether you agree with them or not is totally irrelevant. You can’t very well conversate with someone whose ideas you can’t even gather from their words. Each time I’ve tried to say something, I’ve ended up defending myself, and not understanding why. To me, that smacks of pisspoor communication. ☹ Shame on me for not figuring a better way to ask my questions, or to answer yours. I’m not some kind of brainwashed heartless monster, but from the outside looking in, that’s apparently all I’m putting out there. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/189 "2013-10-04T18:17:36Z")
This thread is not going to go anywhere. The majority of posters have expressed mild apathy to mild disdain toward Jehovah’s witnesses based on their door-to-door intrusion on people’s lives. A few posters have noted particular incidents that inflicted significant pain on themselves or those they knew. The first does not rise to the level of “hatred” sought by the OP. The second has been dismissed for insufficient evidence by the OP. On the other hand, the Jehovah’s Witnesses have been actively persecuted in a number of other countries, (typically, for refusal to be inducted to the military, but, occasionally, for their proselytizing), and various posters have tried to dismiss those actions. (Such persecution has not really occurred in the U.S. since WWI, so it is unlikely that non-JWs in the U.S. are often going to have any experience of it or even be aware of it.) At this point, whatever “facts” might be debated have long since been lost in the earliest posts and it has turned into one more personal feud among various posters. Closed. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/190 "2013-10-04T18:22:40Z")
Didn’t see that **tom** has closed the thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310.md?page=9)