# An honest discussion re: JW hatred **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310 "2013-10-03T23:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/41 "2013-10-04T02:07:20Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > Re: disfellowshipping - it works. If you want to return to the path Jehovah lays out, then you do so. If not, then your continued associated with his people would serve only to diminish the value of the efforts others made to stay on that path. It’s “these are the rules, if you don’t follow them, get off the playing field”. The bible places loyalty to God above loyalty to family. As evil and ugly and heartless as any human being can get, this one. How horrific. I’m ashamed for you, ashamed of you. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/42 "2013-10-04T02:12:37Z")
Someone really should look up and post a link to the epic JW story from…some dude…Master Wang Ka? Something like that. He’d been up all night gaming, just went to bed when they knocked…things escalated to him chasing them down the street waving a sword while clad only in his underwear. But it’s really funny the way he wrote it. ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/43 "2013-10-04T02:14:40Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Perhaps if JW’s were known for good works–like founding colleges and hospitals, effective anti-poverty ministries, social justice, etc–instead of calculating the end of the world down to the second, maybe JUST MAYBE people would have something good to say about them. And maybe they do good works and it’s a false perception that they don’t. But the truth of the matter is that if your only exposure to a religion is through proselytization, you’re not going to really be impressed with that group. I can understand and appreciate that position entirely. When you firmly believe that the only solution to the world’s problems is a theocratic government set up by God and run by his Son, then you don’t focus much of your worldly activities on shoring up the system that currently exists. Rather, you teach people to help themselves individually, and preach and hope for the coming end of the status quo - the status quo which lends itself to poverty and social injustice, et al. And, we help plenty in times of [need](http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130919111749AA97QdN). Poor cite, but there’s links in there if you choose to follow them. Efforts are directed first towards our own, and then spread outward from there. We don’t specifically aim to ease world hunger, world blindness, world diseases, or world anything, because it’s like digging out a mountain with a spoon. Rather, as mentioned above, we focus on helping individuals improve their own situations through Bible based living and entering a worldwide community of “brothers and sisters”. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/44 "2013-10-04T02:15:28Z")
> [@CLee](#): > > But please don’t flatter yourself by thinking that your superior intellect will help you win converts on such a platform. The tolerance for bullshit here seems quite lower than that which you may find on lonely Saturday mornings in financially depressed neighborhoods around the world. You think we don’t know you aren’t tapping into the widow/retiree/shut-in market? We know this. We know your population base. We also know the stats on the longevity, the viability, the fertility of your likely membership base. Shut-ins, widows, loners, the disabled… you prey on those people who desperately need a community. And that, my dear JW, is the only service you provide the World that isn’t a nuisance and a blight on a tax-paying society. Thanks, I suppose, for taking in the chronically lonely. Hitchens couldn’t have said it better himself. Well, he would have found a way, but this deliciously sharp post is great nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/45 "2013-10-04T02:19:55Z")
> [@CLee](#): > > Shut-ins, widows, loners, the disabled… you prey on those people who desperately need a community. > \ > But be honest with them about their chances towards Heaven. Please let them know the seats are all filled, and warn them that any dissent or questions will lead them to be shunned. Don’t mislead those weak-willed lonely folk to pad your numbers. It’s profoundly unkind. Hoo boy. Prey? Now we’re predators. Clearly there’s some preconceptions, prejudice, and pre-established “bad feels” that aren’t going to allow any meaningful conversation here. Re: 144,000 - that’s the number of the people who will be ruling as kings and priests over the earth side by side with jesus. The hope for mankind is to live eternally in a paradise on earth, as was originally intended with the garden of eden. And there’s no limit on that number. So…your point may have been based on a misunderstanding of our teachings there. ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/46 "2013-10-04T02:21:29Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Someone really should look up and post a link to the epic JW story from…some dude…Master Wang Ka? Something like that. He’d been up all night gaming, just went to bed when they knocked…things escalated to him chasing them down the street waving a sword while clad only in his underwear. But it’s really funny the way he wrote it. I read that. It was quite epic. I truly wish I could have seen it firsthand. 😃 And, as others mentioned, it may have been funnier if he brandished the dildo instead of the sword. Less likely to result in weapons charges too… ---
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/47 "2013-10-04T02:26:07Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > Hoo boy. Prey? Now we’re predators. Clearly there’s some preconceptions, prejudice, and pre-established “bad feels” that aren’t going to allow any meaningful conversation here. > > Re: 144,000 - that’s the number of the people who will be ruling as kings and priests over the earth side by side with jesus. The hope for mankind is to live eternally in a paradise on earth, as was originally intended with the garden of eden. And there’s no limit on that number. So…your point may have been based on a misunderstanding of our teachings there. Ah, a paradise filled with the outcasts of society whom God allowed to suffer abject sorry, loneliness, illness, infirmity, and gullibility. What pride you take in humility. Is it safe to assume that Proverbs is omitted from your canon? ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/48 "2013-10-04T02:28:36Z")
Here in my part of the world, the JW are the least bothersome when it comes to door-to-door ministry. And at leas now I got the dope on the 144,000 kings and priests (who needs it?) And for the first time, we finally got our JW office mate to eat a slice of pizza during an informal birthday snack. It was a belated celebration and she ate hers when all the other were done. I won’t join the JW because I don’t like cold pizza. ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/49 "2013-10-04T02:31:25Z")
> [@CLee](#): > > Ah, a paradise filled with the outcasts of society whom God allowed to suffer abject sorry, loneliness, illness, infirmity, and gullibility. What pride you take in humility. Is it safe to assume that Proverbs is omitted from your canon? Are you feeling depressed? This post comes off as a super downer… Proverbs is not omitted. What is your point there? Have you ever met one of Jehovah’s Witnesses? Not at your door on a Saturday morning either. I mean actually met and spoke with? Sorry, lonely, ill, infirm, gullible (maybe a little) we are not. Yes we take pride in humility (oxymoron admitted)…I really don’t see where you’re going with this? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/50 "2013-10-04T02:34:33Z")
You come knocking on my door and you aren’t wearing a UPS uniform and i am going to hate you by default. ---
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/51 "2013-10-04T02:35:14Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Hitchens couldn’t have said it better himself. Well, he would have found a way, but this deliciously sharp post is great nonetheless. But it’s an abhorrent tactic, isn’t it? What stops the rest of us from intervening and protecting those vulnerable, isolated members of our community from these charlatans? Once in, our isolated lonely can never leave, and they are encouraged to shun any family and friends who they are powerless to convert alongside. Shouldn’t there be factions of us patrolling depressed neighborhoods Saturday morn in the same way that strong-willed and educated escorts aid women visiting family planning clinics? Are we really so busy that we allow this cult to recruit and isolate our elders and our infirm? If this OP serves any purpose whatsoever, it should be to spur intervention. The last thing any modern society needs is to allow our weakest members to be roped off and culled (lulled?) by such methods. ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/52 "2013-10-04T02:44:02Z")
> [@CLee](#): > > But it’s an abhorrent tactic, isn’t it? What stops the rest of us from intervening and protecting those vulnerable, isolated members of our community from these charlatans? Once in, our isolated lonely can never leave, and they are encouraged to shun any family and friends who they are powerless to convert alongside. Shouldn’t there be factions of us patrolling depressed neighborhoods Saturday morn in the same way that strong-willed and educated escorts aid women visiting family planning clinics? Are we really so busy that we allow this cult to recruit and isolate our elders and our infirm? If this OP serves any purpose whatsoever, it should be to spur intervention. The last thing any modern society needs is to allow our weakest members to be roped off and culled (lulled?) by such methods. I for one, an intrigued by your views and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. You do have one, don’t you? Or do you require a constantly present and well constructed message for you to respond to and react against? No specific action to be taken on your part, but you’ll sure as hell riposte! And vociferously! Or is this one of those “Somebody should do _something_!” statements? It serves to add little, in place of what you intend to (rather, hope to dream of) destroying. Look here fella, you look like you could use a hug, or a pat on the back for something you’ve recently done well. Most of what you’ve said in this thread appears to me, at least, to be the wailings of a truly depressed soul. Someone who’s been beaten down by the shittiness of the world and you see the negative (from your perspective) side of the witnesses as just one more thing making the picture you’ve been painted oh so bleak. Would you care to have a more private discussion via PM? I’d be more than happy to chat you up, Bible fully excluded, if you’re just feeling crappy. I’m logging off for the night now though. It’s past my bedtime in my time zone. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/53 "2013-10-04T02:46:25Z")
I’m glad you started this thread, **Uber**. Until i read it, I had no idea just how sinister the JWs really are. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/54 "2013-10-04T02:46:27Z")
Yeah, honest discussion. Do you hear how patronizing you come off? ---
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/55 "2013-10-04T02:56:15Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > I for one, an intrigued by your views and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. > > You do have one, don’t you? Or do you require a constantly present and well constructed message for you to respond to and react against? No specific action to be taken on your part, but you’ll sure as hell riposte! And vociferously! > > Or is this one of those “Somebody should do _something_!” statements? It serves to add little, in place of what you intend to (rather, hope to dream of) destroying. > > Look here fella, you look like you could use a hug, or a pat on the back for something you’ve recently done well. Most of what you’ve said in this thread appears to me, at least, to be the wailings of a truly depressed soul. Someone who’s been beaten down by the shittiness of the world and you see the negative (from your perspective) side of the witnesses as just one more thing making the picture you’ve been painted oh so bleak. > > Would you care to have a more private discussion via PM? I’d be more than happy to chat you up, Bible fully excluded, if you’re just feeling crappy. > > I’m logging off for the night now though. It’s past my bedtime in my time zone. Re posting for good measure, the best example of the patronizing, manipulative tactics they use on the vulnerable. Had I given any hint of loneliness or vulnerability, he would have exploited that as well, but I’d most likely have PMs to offer as evidence. It’s remarkable, truly, the unapologetic psychology they are trained to employ. But it isn’t nearly as sophisticated as it is shameless and distasteful. Reminder, here, to each of us to watch out for our cranky elderly aunts, uncles, and greats. Someone like this might snatch them away from us, from the rest of their world if we aren’t caring, attentive and vigilant. Let’s all of us be aware of where our unattached relatives and isolated neighbors are each Saturday morning. ETA: need I say it, Uber? Send me a PM, and I’ll re post it here. Do what you must, but don’t expect me to protect your backhanded attempts to smooth things over for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/56 "2013-10-04T03:01:47Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > Thanks for your POV, **Dr. Drake**. I appreciate it, and I’m sorry things have been awful for you. This type of response irks me to no end. “Things” weren’t awful for **Dr. Drake** -_JWs were responsible_ for awful things happening to Dr. Drake. Instead of denying or discussing the awful things done by the JWs, you make it sound like it was just a random bunch of things that could have happened to anybody. Have the guts to own up to it, explain it or deny it, but when he gives you exactly what you ask for don’t just wave it off in one sentence and move on as if it had absolutely nothing to do with the topic. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/57 "2013-10-04T03:25:56Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > I for one, an intrigued by your views and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. > > You do have one, don’t you? Or do you require a constantly present and well constructed message for you to respond to and react against? No specific action to be taken on your part, but you’ll sure as hell riposte! And vociferously! > > Or is this one of those “Somebody should do _something_!” statements? It serves to add little, in place of what you intend to (rather, hope to dream of) destroying. > > Look here fella, you look like you could use a hug, or a pat on the back for something you’ve recently done well. Most of what you’ve said in this thread appears to me, at least, to be the wailings of a truly depressed soul. Someone who’s been beaten down by the shittiness of the world and you see the negative (from your perspective) side of the witnesses as just one more thing making the picture you’ve been painted oh so bleak. > > Would you care to have a more private discussion via PM? I’d be more than happy to chat you up, Bible fully excluded, if you’re just feeling crappy. > > I’m logging off for the night now though. It’s past my bedtime in my time zone. and you call my posts ‘condescending’ - the irony, it burns. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/58 "2013-10-04T03:32:07Z")
You’ve done nothing to show there is widespread hatred, as opposed to annoyance, for JWs. I get that it supports your belief that persecution means you’re right, but a few isolated incidents (and, your claim to the contrary, that’s exactly what they are - most cases of violence in the U.S. I could find by Googling happened in the 1940s and prior) do not equal any kind of concentrated attack. If you can come up with any cite showing this is a major issue, bring it. Also, since you’re apparently “done” in the other thread, I’ll just put my response to your post from there right here: > [@Witness haters--are you happy now? frowning](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/witness-haters-are-you-happy-now/670221/146): > > No, I’m pissed that parents could let their children die based on some ill-informed quack belief made up by people who can’t even get the date of Armageddon right. Do I hate JWs? No. But I think things like this make them some evil motherfuckers. ---
**Author:** ![Athabasca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Athabasca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athabasca)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/59 "2013-10-04T03:58:45Z")
Well, I hate Westboro Baptist Church, and I have no qualms about that. jW doesn’t seem to practice that kind of coercion, and their constant Saturday visitations in my neighbourhood are wearing on everyone, but it is no cause for hatred. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/60 "2013-10-04T04:22:20Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > The discussion I’d like to have, and I believe will eventually become a debate (or argument, whatever) is: why? From whence does the uneven application of outrage stem? Let us know when you’re done on the cross, as we need the nails for the next martyr. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310.md?page=4)