# An honest discussion re: JW hatred **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310 "2013-10-03T23:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/161 "2013-10-04T16:35:52Z")
> [@naita](#): > > And then you went on to defend the source of his problems. > You don’t get to absolve yourself of personal responsibility for the conduct of an entire organization, which seems to be your tactic on refuting most attacks on JW behaviour, when you defend that conduct. Neither do you get to play the “there may be other circumstances”-card for a case where it’s blatantly obvious disfellowshipping is to blame. Sure there may be other factors, but it follows the pattern of all other stories of former JW’s I’ve heard, some of them directly from the involved. > [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > So the tack is “you’re one of _ **them** _, and they’re bad!” No, it’s a case of “When you defend their bad actions as reasonable, you’re bad.” > [@](#): > > Look, forgive me for not being clear. There’s lots of JW’s who think along a much narrower path than I do personally. Overall, I still choose to call myself a Witness, for reasons I’ve already mentioned. > > That doesn’t make me any more of a heartless monster than it makes you (if you’re an american) personally responsible for the killings in Abu Grabe or the detonation of nukes over Hiroshima. You’re taking all this negative emotion stemming from whatever bad experience you had or heard of, and directing it towards the next hapless soul who identifies himself as a JW - be it at your door or on a message board. No, I’m criticizing your support for seriously negative practices central to most JWs, and you dismissive attitude, in a thread where you asked for information on why JWs are disliked, to information about which practices we find abhorrent. > [@](#): > > **And honestly, if you’re so bent out of shape about saturday morning visits - just get a little sign that says “No witnessing”. We’re more than respectful enough (99% of us anyway) to just move on. We’d rather spend our time talking to someone who wants to talk to us.** I have only received visits from JWs twice in my life, the last time at least 15 years ago. I can see the local kingdom hall from my balcony and the local JWs aren’t stupid enough to knock on the doors of their immediate neighbours. And as been pointed out, your door knocking is the reason you’re ridiculed and joked about it the US, not the source of any widespread hatred, but it’s also reasonable to expect that it’s what gains you attention far beyond your few numbers in areas where minority, Christian sects aren’t popular. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/162 "2013-10-04T16:38:13Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > And I gathered as much from just your first post. Which is why I said I was sorry for how things turned out for you, and didn’t pursue the topic much further. > > You made your point, and I didn’t want to upset you further in what might have been perceived as an attempt to persuade you that your feelings weren’t valid. They are, and from what I’ve read, they SUCK. > > Sounds like you’ve got a tangled web of crap to get through, and a bunch of dolts with VERY closed minds to deal with. So does that make your ready to rethink your stance on disfellowshipping former JWs? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/163 "2013-10-04T16:41:27Z")
> [@](#): > > And honestly, if you’re so bent out of shape about saturday morning visits - just get a little sign that says “No witnessing”. We’re more than respectful enough (99% of us anyway) to just move on. We’d rather spend our time talking to someone who wants to talk to us. No snark intended. Do you actually ever find someone who wants to talk to you? Not sad and lonely people who just want to talk, but someone who actually wants to talk about your beliefs? I can’t imagine someone with an attitude of “I’ve never wanted to join the Jehovah Witnesses before, but now that you explain to me what it’s all about, it sounds perfect for me.” ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/164 "2013-10-04T16:43:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This is just another variation of “I’m sorry things happened to you”. Why can’t you say anything like “I’m sorry JWs did these things to you”? Because I don’t know the specifics, I don’t know what JW’s “did” in his case, all I know is that his association with JW’s ended in his pain. Family matters and the pain of memory often cloud the chronology of facts and as such, it’s not reasonable, when offering a word of condolence, to get the matters perfectly straight so that I can apologize in some magical “appropriate” way. I simply apologized for the way things turned out. Why the hell would I personally [apologize](https://www.google.com/search?q=apologize&rlz=1C1EODB_enUS529US530&oq=apologize&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.1676j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espvd=210&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8)(note the regret part). I can’t express regret over something I’ve done, when I haven’t done it… He was satisfied with my words. Who are you to say he shouldn’t have been, and should have sought a more specific wording of the apology? ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/165 "2013-10-04T16:45:23Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > No snark intended. Do you actually ever find someone who wants to talk to you? Not sad and lonely people who just want to talk, but someone who actually wants to talk about your beliefs? I can’t imagine someone with an attitude of “I’ve never wanted to join the Jehovah Witnesses before, but now that you explain to me what it’s all about, it sounds perfect for me.” Yes. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/166 "2013-10-04T16:49:47Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > No. Because I said: The discussion I’d like to have, and I believe will eventually become a debate (or argument, whatever) is: why? From whence does the uneven application of outrage stem? What are the actual motivations? I’ve underlined a part I think is worthy of a bit more consideration, if you are in fact interested in having this discussion honestly. > > Re-read my OP. I’m interested in understanding the motivations behind the attitudes people hold toward witnesses. I never said anything about persecution, I’m not trying to prove/disprove/justify/vilify that. > > I want to know what’s going on in the minds of people who decide that JW’s are worthy of their ire/outrage/hatred. And some people replied in kind. Some others, took a different tack of discrediting JW’s entirely, or me, or the strawman they put up, or whatever. > > This thread has obviously deviated from my OP. Do you have anything to contribute along the lines of the OP? That is because your OP was unclear, at least to judge from the response it has gathered and what “clarification” you have offered. You started the thread a tangent to a thread about a single incident in the US. I haven’t looked up later reports to see if there’s been further information, but I think it’s reasonable to expect the individual in question had bad experiences with JW going beyond having been witnessed to or serious problems in some other way or both. Why do JWs have that happen to them more often than other minority Christian sects? Because they go door to door. You then started offering sources for persecution of JW from various countries around the world. The reasons for the experiences JWs and the organisation have in those countries varies. Some have a lot of religious violence in general, some are militantly secular. In some of them JWs aren’t particularly singled out, and in none of them are JW the only minority religion suffering unfair treatment of some sort, but to the degree that they get more than their fair share, it’s likely that it’s because they go around announcing themselves as others in an environment where others are feared, distrusted, disliked and/or borderline illegal. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/167 "2013-10-04T16:50:11Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > Because I don’t know the specifics, I don’t know what JW’s “did” in his case, all I know is that his association with JW’s ended in his pain. Family matters and the pain of memory often cloud the chronology of facts and as such, it’s not reasonable, when offering a word of condolence, to get the matters perfectly straight so that I can apologize in some magical “appropriate” way. I simply apologized for the way things turned out. > > Why the hell would I personally [apologize](https://www.google.com/search?q=apologize&rlz=1C1EODB_enUS529US530&oq=apologize&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.1676j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espvd=210&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8)(note the regret part). I can’t express regret over something I’ve done, when I haven’t done it… > > He was satisfied with my words. Who are you to say he shouldn’t have been, and should have sought a more specific wording of the apology? The first paragaph is essentially calling him a ‘liar’ and that his experience is ‘clouded’ - you don’t see how dismissive that is? Even more so for a “first hand recount” ? ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/168 "2013-10-04T16:55:17Z")
> [@simster](#): > > The first paragaph is essentially calling him a ‘liar’ and that his experience is ‘clouded’ - you don’t see how dismissive that is? Even more so for a “first hand recount” ? No, it is **not**. That’s a totally unfair thing to say, and based on your insistence at finding fault with anything I say, I’m done with you. I can’t imagine how I could ever hope to have a rational conversation with you. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/169 "2013-10-04T16:57:17Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > No, it is **not**. That’s a totally unfair thing to say, and based on your insistence at finding fault with anything I say, I’m done with you. I can’t imagine how I could ever hope to have a rational conversation with you. He told you exactly what happened - you saying that “i dont know what they did _exactly_” is dismissive and essentialy calling him a liar - then you go further to dismiss his recollection as “cloudy due to the pain”. DO YOU SEE HOW DISMISSIVE THAT IS ? ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/170 "2013-10-04T16:58:47Z")
> [@simster](#): > > The first paragaph is essentially calling him a ‘liar’ and that his experience is ‘clouded’ - you don’t see how dismissive that is? Even more so for a “first hand recount” ? > [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > No, it is **not**. That’s a totally unfair thing to say, and based on your insistence at finding fault with anything I say, I’m done with you. I can’t imagine how I could ever hope to have a rational conversation with you. Hands up everyone who agrees with the Goober that simster was unfair in this quoted post? 1 … Okay Goober, you can take your hand down now. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/171 "2013-10-04T16:58:59Z")
Meh, they don’t bother me. Frankly there are more guys that come to my door asking if they can trim my trees than Jehovah’s witnesses. You know who really annoys me? There is a self anointed pastor who gets on the subway here and sings hymns and preaches sermons, we are literally a captive audience. If someone complains (or mocks him etc.), he tries to exorcise the demons out of them. THATS annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/172 "2013-10-04T16:59:59Z")
> [@naita](#): > > That is because your OP was unclear, at least to judge from the response it has gathered and what “clarification” you have offered. You started the thread a tangent to a thread about a single incident in the US. I haven’t looked up later reports to see if there’s been further information, but I think it’s reasonable to expect the individual in question had bad experiences with JW going beyond having been witnessed to or serious problems in some other way or both. Why do JWs have that happen to them more often than other minority Christian sects? Because they go door to door. Seems perfectly clear to me. Some people who responded understood just fine. Others, went off the rails and chose their own topic to talk about. LIke: > [@naita](#): > > You then started offering sources for persecution of JW from various countries around the world. The reasons for the experiences JWs and the organisation have in those countries varies. Some have a lot of religious violence in general, some are militantly secular. In some of them JWs aren’t particularly singled out, and in none of them are JW the only minority religion suffering unfair treatment of some sort, but to the degree that they get more than their fair share, it’s likely that it’s because they go around announcing themselves as others in an environment where others are feared, distrusted, disliked and/or borderline illegal. I was responding to individuals making claims that persecution doesn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/173 "2013-10-04T17:00:00Z")
Persecution clearly happens. You haven’t provided any evidence that it happens in the US, though. > [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > No. Because I said: The discussion I’d like to have, and I believe will eventually become a debate (or argument, whatever) is: why? From whence does the uneven application of outrage stem? What are the actual motivations? I’ve underlined a part I think is worthy of a bit more consideration, if you are in fact interested in having this discussion honestly. > > Re-read my OP. I’m interested in understanding the motivations behind the attitudes people hold toward witnesses. I never said anything about persecution, I’m not trying to prove/disprove/justify/vilify that. > > I want to know what’s going on in the minds of people who decide that JW’s are worthy of their ire/outrage/hatred. And some people replied in kind. Some others, took a different tack of discrediting JW’s entirely, or me, or the strawman they put up, or whatever. > > This thread has obviously deviated from my OP. Do you have anything to contribute along the lines of the OP? It’s already been explained fairly well, IMHO. Most Americans (including me) are annoyed by JWs because you wake us up in the morning and ask to speak about stuff that is not appropriately discussed on a doorstep. What makes this annoying is not just the fact that we’re being woken up, but that we’re being woken up for something pointless. Nobody (or at least nobody I know) changes their belief system because a guy showed up at the door and asked nicely. As far as people who hate JWs, based on this thread it generally stems from the fact that you deny lifesaving medical care to your kids. I might add that if your position is that God will take care of it\*, you should be happy about the guy in the Pit thread who shot at some JWs that showed up at his door. Isn’t he doing God’s work? I have no _personal_ hatred for JWs; the few I’ve known were universally nice people and nobody has tried to convert me (to any faith) via doorstep visit in many years. I am annoyed by the presumption that I want to hear from you, though (not to mention Mormons, Hare Krishnas and door-to-door salespeople). As far as the OP goes, it seems fair to suggest that you should support the proposition that JWs are unfairly disliked (more so than any other group who evangelize on doorsteps, or sell vacuum cleaners door-to-door, or whatever). If I start a thread asserting that gas prices are high and it’s Obama’s fault, and ask people to debate which of his policies are responsible, it’s incumbent on me to support my premise. \*I don’t know if that’s why JWs refuse transfusions and what not, I’m just guessing. If you want to explain it, feel free; I’m listening. ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/174 "2013-10-04T17:03:02Z")
> [@simster](#): > > DO YOU SEE HOW DISMISSIVE THAT IS ? Given the way that you’ve decided to read it, yes. Facts are thusly: I do not know what exactly happened. All I’ve got is what he told me. And I can perceive that he’s hurt. So I offered an apology, and words of condolence for his situation. I didn’t probe any further. If that’s dismissive, and makes me a dick, then I don’t know what planet we’re having this discussion on… ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/175 "2013-10-04T17:04:45Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > No, it is **not**. That’s a totally unfair thing to say, and based on your insistence at finding fault with anything I say, I’m done with you. I can’t imagine how I could ever hope to have a rational conversation with you. Look at this without a defensive lens: > [@](#): > > Because I don’t know the specifics, I don’t know what JW’s “did” in his case,… Scare quotes around the “did”. That is often used to imply doubt to the word being used. > [@](#): > > …all I know is that his association with JW’s ended in his pain. Family matters and the pain of memory \*\*often cloud the chronology of facts \*\*and as such, I understand the point you think your making, but in reality you are automatically putting in words to suggest his memory was not reliable and ergo possibly mistaken. [quote=] it’s not reasonable, when offering a word of condolence, to get the matters **perfectly straight** [/quote] “Perfectly straight” sets up a strawman argument to show it’s impossible to give a response that would be acceptable. No one is asking for perfect understanding of the facts in order to believe what this person is saying. [quote=] so that I can apologize in some magical “appropriate” way. I simply apologized for the way things turned out. [/QUOTE] Again, scare quotes around “magically appropriate” indicating that if the words received weren’t ok, it’s because of an unreasonableness on the part of the one with hurt feelings. All that doubt, dismissal and deflection in a short post that you thought was an act of kindness. How about not questioning the posters memory, not pretending that you are being held to an unreasonable standard of perfect words and magically appropriate language. Try to look at it from the other side- that is what this thread is about, no? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/176 "2013-10-04T17:08:24Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > Given the way that you’ve decided to read it, yes. > > Facts are thusly: I do not know what exactly happened. All I’ve got is what he told me. And I can perceive that he’s hurt. So I offered an apology, and words of condolence for his situation. I didn’t probe any further. > > If that’s dismissive, and makes me a dick, then I don’t know what planet we’re having this discussion on… One where you ask for reasons and stories, then dismiss them out of hand while accusing those telling their tales of having faulty memories, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/177 "2013-10-04T17:10:10Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > Given the way that you’ve decided to read it, yes. > > Facts are thusly: I do not know what exactly happened. All I’ve got is what he told me. And I can perceive that he’s hurt. So I offered an apology, and words of condolence for his situation. I didn’t probe any further. > > If that’s dismissive, and makes me a dick, then I don’t know what planet we’re having this discussion on… It is, and it does - welcome back to earth - its not the initial apology that was as dismissive as it was everything since then that you’ve said. That you don’t see it speaks volumes for the cult indoctrination you have been under. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/178 "2013-10-04T17:10:46Z")
> [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > No. Because I said: The discussion I’d like to have, and I believe will eventually become a debate (or argument, whatever) is: why? From whence does the uneven application of outrage stem? You have not established that there is an uneven application of outrage towards JWs as opposed to outrage at other religious proselytizers who knock on peoples’ doors. Do you have cites that incidents of violence toward JWs in the US is greater than incidence of violence towards, for example, Mormons? How do those incidents of violence compare to incidents of violence directed at non-religious, adult, door-to-door vendors? (I’d consider children going door-to-door a separate category since most people have different tolerances towards children). What about incidents of violence towards Moonies or Hare Krishnas? Do they see more or less attacks? And what do you mean by attack, anyway? Surely people muttering to themselves after the doors close is not a comparable exhibition of hate to actual physical assault? Before you ask “why” an event occurs, you first need to demonstrate that it occurs the way you assert that it does. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/179 "2013-10-04T17:29:08Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Everyone… > > Stop screwing around with posts in quotes. It’s a solid rule not to do so and, while these cases are borderline, I don’t want anything even close to an infraction for anyone in this thread. > > Because I love all my children equally, get it? Yes, I get and I love it. ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310/180 "2013-10-04T17:33:08Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Look at this without a defensive lens: > > Scare quotes around the “did”. That is often used to imply doubt to the word being used. > > I understand the point you think your making, but in reality you are automatically putting in words to suggest his memory was not reliable and ergo possibly mistaken. > > “Perfectly straight” sets up a strawman argument to show it’s impossible to give a response that would be acceptable. No one is asking for perfect understanding of the facts in order to believe what this person is saying. > > Again, scare quotes around “magically appropriate” indicating that if the words received weren’t ok, it’s because of an unreasonableness on the part of the one with hurt feelings. I simply tried to offer apology for his pain due to the events he experienced. I’m not saying I don’t believe him, simply that I wouldn’t feel right saying “Oh those nasty XXX, they’re awful. What they did was so wrong!” when all I have is his recounting of the events. I acknowledge the possibility that things may appear very differently from the other side, which they often do, in the real world. So what is so terrible about saying I’m sorry for the way things turned out? Pedants the world over must be turning in their graves. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > All that doubt, dismissal and deflection in a short post that you thought was an act of kindness. How about not questioning the posters memory, not pretending that you are being held to an unreasonable standard of perfect words and magically appropriate language. Try to look at it from the other side- that is what this thread is about, no? That is entirely based upon the posts directed at me by people other than **Dr. Drake** , people who picked apart every word I said. Fer cripes sake, the guy to whom the apology was directed didn’t feel such outrage over the wording I used. In my entire life I’ve never given automatic 100% support to the first side of anything that is presented to me, because I’m a ridiculous skeptic. Yes, a skeptical JW - you can imagine how much fun I am on Sunday. It’s ingrained into me. Noah didn’t put all the animals on the boat, and Satan’s not breathing over my shoulder. Etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-honest-discussion-re-jw-hatred/670310.md?page=10)