# An idea for peace in the Jerusalem/Isreal **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 24, 2015, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693 "2015-08-24T05:24:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/41 "2015-08-24T07:39:39Z")
Remember: the first step in curing ignorance is admitting you have a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/42 "2015-08-24T07:40:57Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Show me one million Americans who would be willing to abandon their homes for the sake of some nebulous “peace”, and we could talk about how my side is less reasonable that yours. > But why am I talking to you, anyway? You actually believe the conflict is about religion. I can’t. But I can show you one million americans who would be acting in a petty juvenile manner if they were not willing to move, when moving actually would dramatically decrease one of the planets major sources of conflict. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/43 "2015-08-24T07:42:34Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I can’t. But I can show you one million americans who would be acting in a petty juvenile manner if they were not willing to move, **when moving actually would dramatically decrease one of the planets major sources of conflict.** You keep saying this, but when people point out that it’s plainly not true you don’t seem to have any response or justification to offer. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/44 "2015-08-24T07:43:13Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Um, this has nothing to do with religion, Robert. As I pointed out in post 2. Intercommunal territorial disputes are fairly common among people of all religions and none. Ok So we separate any/all people that can not live side by side without bombing and terrorizing one another. I am sure you are going to call me stupid or naive. But in reality, no spot on the planet is that important that we should let people keep living there if it threatens peace and stability to the whole planet. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/45 "2015-08-24T07:46:47Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Ok > > So we separate any/all people that can not live side by side without bombing and terrorizing one another. > > I am sure you are going to call me stupid or naive. But in reality, no spot on the planet is that important that we should let people keep living there if it threatens peace and stability to the whole planet. OK. I await the keys to your house. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/46 "2015-08-24T07:47:08Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > You keep saying this, but when people point out that it’s plainly not true you don’t seem to have any response or justification to offer. What? If two groups of people are bombing and terrorizing one another because they are are living in the same spot of ground and fighting over the same spot of ground, how is removing them both from the same spot of ground going to make things any worse. If you are standing in front of me I can punch you. If you are standing across the street it is harder to do. If you are 100,000 miles away it is much much much harder for me to punch you. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/47 "2015-08-24T07:49:15Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > OK. I await the keys to your house. I live in a one room apartment. You are welcome to it. All I really need is a roof over my head. I’d be perfectly willing to move. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/48 "2015-08-24T07:51:01Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Two groups, the Reds and the Blues, are fighting over the sovereign state Purplelandia. It is a conflict that is thousands of years old. Neither side can agree to concessions. Both sides are ALREADY upset. What serves the interest of world peace, declaring that neither the Reds nor the Blues can inhabit Purplelandia or allowing them to continue a fight that has no possible resolution? Not to sound callous or anything, but I do have to side with Alessan there. When it comes right down to it why should I, a Green kid from Greengorod, or you, a Viridian from the Principality of Viridia, give much of a crap about Reds and Blues fighting each other over Purplandia ? They’ve been at it for thousands of years you say ? Evidently they must be content with this arrangement. (as for world peace, it’s actually doing pretty goddamn fine these days. For all the doom and gloom in the news, [the past few decades have been some of the most peaceful the Earth has ever seen in recorded history](http://edge.org/3rd_culture/pinker07/pinker07_index.html), be it in terms of number of active wars going on at any given time OR relative bodycounts) ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/49 "2015-08-24T07:54:54Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Not to sound callous or anything, but I do have to side with Alessan there. When it comes right down to it why should I, a Green kid from Greengorod, or you, a Viridian from the Principality of Viridia, give much of a crap about Reds and Blues fighting each other over Purplandia ? > They’ve been at it for thousands of years you say ? Evidently they must be content with this arrangement. > > (as for world peace, it’s actually doing pretty goddamn fine these days. For all the doom and gloom in the news, [the past few decades have been some of the most peaceful the Earth has ever seen in recorded history](http://edge.org/3rd_culture/pinker07/pinker07_index.html), be it in terms of number of active wars going on at any given time OR relative bodycounts) And not to be dismissive but I actually really really mean this: Suppose I (the hypothetical me) are homosexual and want to live in San Francisco? Suppose the hypothetical me is a cowboy and wants to live on a cattle farm in Texas. Suppose the non hypothetical me, the rabid atheist, budding artist, staunch leftist misses the heck out of living in NYC. If moving or not getting to live where you really really want to live actually - does - help reduce tension in a conflict actually does threaten world peace and world stability, why should I not move? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/50 "2015-08-24T07:57:16Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I live in a one room apartment. You are welcome to it. All I really need is a roof over my head. I’d be perfectly willing to move. Well, I need more than that. We built an entire country here, and a pretty damn good one at that. If you want us to leave, your going to have to give us something just as good instead, and that means all of the stuff a country already has, like houses and roads and schools and shopping malls, all to ourselves. Oh, and we want sovereignty, too - it’s something that we fought long and hard for - so clear out the current residents and withdraw all claims to the land. And you know… even then we probably wouldn’t accept it. We love our country. This isn’t about religion, it’s about patriotism - although I’m sure that’s an equally foreign concept to you. There are worse things than war, you know. Losing your country is one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/51 "2015-08-24T07:57:56Z")
OP: How about we apply your “solution” to the issue of Native Americans in the United States. Let’s start with wherever it is that you live. You and your entire family relocate out of not only that town but also relocate to somewhere that has never been claimed by any Native American group. Now what do you say? Are you going to just up and abandon all you’ve worked for? Is your entire extended family going to do the same? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/52 "2015-08-24T08:03:44Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Well, I need more than that. We built an entire country here, and a pretty damn good one at that. If you want us to leave, your going to have to give us something just as good instead, and that means all of the stuff a country already has, like houses and roads and schools and shopping malls, all to ourselves. Oh, and we want sovereignty, too - it’s something that we fought long and hard for - so clear out the current residents and withdraw all claims to the land. > > And you know… even then we probably wouldn’t accept it. We love our country. This isn’t about religion, it’s about patriotism - although I’m sure that’s an equally foreign concept to you. > > There are worse things than war, you know. Losing your country is one of them. Yeah, well, patriotism is just about as stupid as religion… Look, you love where you live. So what? I… LOVED living in NYC. Not a single day that goes by that I don’t miss it terribly. But my father, who is 75, is getting older. He needs me nearby. I’m going to have to make some sacrifices to help him. I could whine and complain about not living in NYC but that really is just counter productive to the reality of the situation at hand. I’m sure you live living in Israel/Jerusalem/where ever you live. But NYC is a pretty darn nice place to live too. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/53 "2015-08-24T08:04:58Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > OP: How about we apply your “solution” to the issue of Native Americans in the United States. Let’s start with wherever it is that you live. You and your entire family relocate out of not only that town but also relocate to somewhere that has never been claimed by any Native American group. > > Now what do you say? Are you going to just up and abandon all you’ve worked for? Is your entire extended family going to do the same? Yes, if it prevents bombings and terror on a daily basis then yes, we need to move. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/54 "2015-08-24T08:05:54Z")
Besides, the French and Germans fought each other for centuries, and were a much greater risk to world peace than the Israelis and Palestinians ever were. Would you have suggested removing the French from France and the Germans from Germany? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/55 "2015-08-24T08:06:04Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > There are worse things than war, you know. Losing your country is one of them. What?!?!?!?!?! ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/56 "2015-08-24T08:07:51Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Besides, the French and Germans fought each other for centuries, and were a much greater risk to world peace than the Israelis and Palestinians ever were. Would you have suggested removing the French from France and the Germans from Germany? If you were talking about moving people out of a couple of regions in France/Germany, then, certainly, yes, move them. Israel has a fraction of the land and population of either France or Germany. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/57 "2015-08-24T08:08:03Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Yes, if it prevents bombings and terror on a daily basis then yes, we need to move. Why do terror and bombings bother you so much? After all, you’re not the one living through them. In fact, _I_ am the one living through them. And I say that they’re an acceptable price to pay for living here. Why is your opinion, from half way around the world, more valid than mine? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/58 "2015-08-24T08:09:06Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > What?!?!?!?!?! Absolutely. Kind of a no-brainer, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/59 "2015-08-24T08:11:43Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Why do terror and bombings bother you so much? After all, you’re not the one living through them. In fact, _I_ am the one living through them. And I say that they’re an acceptable price to pay for living here. Why is your opinion, from half way around the world, more valid than mine? > [@Alessan](#): > > Absolutely. Kind of a no-brainer, actually. My opinion is that you are acting in a completely irrational manner. EDIT: maybe we best not continue this conversation at this exact moment. I don’t see it leading to anything productive, only stress and more conflict and argument ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/60 "2015-08-24T08:15:20Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Besides, the French and Germans fought each other for centuries, and were a much greater risk to world peace than the Israelis and Palestinians ever were. Would you have suggested removing the French from France and the Germans from Germany? Pfah ! Typical. Arrogant foreigners having opinions about stuff they know nothing about. Germans ? Dear boy, our real enemies are and have always been the perfidious English. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693.md?page=4)