# An idea for peace in the Jerusalem/Isreal **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 24, 2015, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693 "2015-08-24T05:24:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/121 "2015-08-26T14:13:54Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > But if they are 10,000 miles away and no one is allowed to permanently occupy the land in question, don’t you think the bombings will be a lot less? No, that’s the whole point. Being denied the land they think belongs to them is the reason they’re bombing. Your proposal is taking a cause for which people are already fighting and making the cause bigger. Distance isn’t going to stop the fighting, It would just spread it out. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/122 "2015-08-26T14:17:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No, that’s the whole point. Being denied the land they think belongs to them is the reason they’re bombing. Your proposal is taking a cause for which people are already fighting and making the cause bigger. > > Distance isn’t going to stop the fighting, It would just spread it out. (Honestly) maybe, maybe not There are lots of Muslims living in/near Detroit, right? There are lots of Jews living on Long Island. They are not blowing each other up. I’m being serious, not sarcastic. Within a few generations all the upset parties would clam down, presumably. Most would clam down in a few years, but certainly not all. Neither Detroit or Long Island is really that bad a place to live… ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/123 "2015-08-26T14:30:44Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > (Honestly) maybe, maybe not > > There are lots of Muslims living in/near Detroit, right? There are lots of Jews living on Long Island. They are not blowing each other up. I’m being serious, not sarcastic. Within a few generations all the upset parties would clam down, presumably. Most would clam down in a few years, but certainly not all. Neither Detroit or Long Island is really that bad a place to live… You don’t seem to understand that this is not simply a religious conflict. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/124 "2015-08-26T14:39:29Z")
It has also occurred to me that relocating that many people is no easy task. We will need a people with the logistic experience, somebody with a proven record of efficiency separating people by their ethnicity and or beliefs. But where shall we find them? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/125 "2015-08-26T14:44:50Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I was really more interested in talking about it as a hypothetical situation. I’m not sure why everyone is freaking out and accusing me of wanting to commit genocide against two groups of people. The idea is simple. If Reds and Blues are fighting over Purpleandia then neither one of them should be allowed to live there. It’s just not worth it. No place is. So it’s just a matter of principle? It’s not actually supposed to help anyone? ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/126 "2015-08-26T14:46:04Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > There are lots of Muslims living in/near Detroit, right? There are lots of Jews living on Long Island. They are not blowing each other up. I’m being serious, not sarcastic. Within a few generations all the upset parties would clam down, presumably. Most would clam down in a few years, but certainly not all. Neither Detroit or Long Island is really that bad a place to live… The difference is they largely chose to live there even if it was because they were leaving the troubles of home. That’s different than forcefully deporting someone. That part where you said living there with the current problems isn’t worth it, is you talking about your value judgement. A lot of people you want to forcibly deport like living there. Apparently they don’t share the same value judgement as you. Aside from being unfeasible that’s probably a big chunk of the pushback you’ve gotten. Your idea is basically, let’s force people to live in accordance with your values. That rarely goes over well. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/127 "2015-08-26T16:18:45Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > So it’s just a matter of principle? It’s not actually supposed to help anyone? > [@DinoR](#): > > The difference is they largely chose to live there even if it was because they were leaving the troubles of home. That’s different than forcefully deporting someone. That part where you said living there with the current problems isn’t worth it, is you talking about your value judgement. A lot of people you want to forcibly deport like living there. Apparently they don’t share the same value judgement as you. > > Aside from being unfeasible that’s probably a big chunk of the pushback you’ve gotten. Your idea is basically, let’s force people to live in accordance with your values. That rarely goes over well. > [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > It has also occurred to me that relocating that many people is no easy task. We will need a people with the logistic experience, somebody with a proven record of efficiency separating people by their ethnicity and or beliefs. > > But where shall we find them? My comments were half hypothetical, half critical. I realize the problem is not _just_ religious but religion is a LARGE part of the problem. Fanaticism, whether religious or patriotic is equally stupid as far as I am concerned so pointing out to me how “wrong” I am because I don’t understand that its “not just religion” really does not impress me much. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/128 "2015-08-26T16:22:34Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > (Honestly) maybe, maybe not > > There are lots of Muslims living in/near Detroit, right? There are lots of Jews living on Long Island. They are not blowing each other up. I’m being serious, not sarcastic. Within a few generations all the upset parties would clam down, presumably. Most would clam down in a few years, but certainly not all. Neither Detroit or Long Island is really that bad a place to live… There’s a lot of people in the world who aren’t fighting for Jerusalem. Those people aren’t the issue. They didn’t give up the idea of fighting because they moved to places like Michigan or New York. They moved to places like Michigan or New York because they had no desire to be involved in the fighting. The problem is people who are fighting for Jerusalem. If they’re willing to fight for Jerusalem now, why would you think they’d give up their willingness to fight if you just moved them farther away? If a person is willing to throw bombs if he’s ten miles outside of Jerusalem, why wouldn’t he throw bomb if he’s a thousand miles outside Jerusalem? And why assume things would calm down after a few generations? People have shown they can hold grudges throughout their lives and pass them on to their children. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/129 "2015-08-26T16:23:52Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > My comments were half hypothetical, half critical. I realize the problem is not _just_ religious but religion is a LARGE part of the problem. Fanaticism, whether religious or patriotic is equally stupid as far as I am concerned so pointing out to me how “wrong” I am because I don’t understand that its “not just religion” really does not impress me much. Well your stupid obnoxious idea for peace hasn’t impressed anyone so I guess we’re even. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/130 "2015-08-26T16:24:50Z")
How about we just force everyone who lives there to resounce their religion, and then offer them the best of luck for the future. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/131 "2015-08-26T16:31:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There’s a lot of people in the world who aren’t fighting for Jerusalem. Those people aren’t the issue. They didn’t give up the idea of fighting because they moved to places like Michigan or New York. They moved to places like Michigan or New York because they had no desire to be involved in the fighting. > > The problem is people who are fighting for Jerusalem. If they’re willing to fight for Jerusalem now, why would you think they’d give up their willingness to fight if you just moved them farther away? If a person is willing to throw bombs if he’s ten miles outside of Jerusalem, why wouldn’t he throw bomb if he’s a thousand miles outside Jerusalem? > > And why assume things would calm down after a few generations? People have shown they can hold grudges throughout their lives and pass them on to their children. Well, really, it’s simple. Two kids are fighting over a ball. Take the ball away. What happens? Is this an oversimplification? Yes. But your idea that it will not decrease the violence if you separate two groups who hate each other and kill each other, that that will not decrease the violence, this idea is also an oversimplification. Logistics alone would dictate that the violence will lessen. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/132 "2015-08-26T16:33:10Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > How about we just force everyone who lives there to resounce their religion, and then offer them the best of luck for the future. If I could push a button and make that happen, I would. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/133 "2015-08-26T16:34:39Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > … Logistics alone would dictate that the violence will lessen. Not if they blame their new neighbors for their plight … Think globally, kill locally!. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/134 "2015-08-26T16:39:06Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Well, really, it’s simple. Two kids are fighting over a ball. Take the ball away. What happens? Is this an oversimplification? Yes. But your idea that it will not decrease the violence if you separate two groups who hate each other and kill each other, that that will not decrease the violence, this idea is also an oversimplification. Logistics alone would dictate that the violence will lessen. That’s the thing though. Likening this to a childish squabble is not oversimplification. It’s pompous and insulting. You are not smarter or more mature than the leaders of Israel or the Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/135 "2015-08-26T16:41:26Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > That’s the thing though. Liken this to a childish squabble is not oversimplification. It’s pompous and insulting. You are not smarter or more mature than the leaders of Israel or the Palestinians. Well, if it’s pompous to denounce fanaticism - which is clearly a form of childish behavior - then, by all means, label me pompous, insulting, arrogation, call me what ever you want. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/136 "2015-08-26T16:50:35Z")
You’re a pacifist. That doesn’t mean everyone else is a fanatic. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/137 "2015-08-26T16:56:54Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Why would you assume I’m white? Are you not white? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/138 "2015-08-26T17:54:30Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Well, really, it’s simple. Two kids are fighting over a ball. Take the ball away. What happens? Except it’s not your ball. They’re not your kids. The ball is too big to move. There are lots of kids. You live on the other side of the neighborhood. One of the groups of kids has guns, and both have knives. You have no way of separating the kids. The majority of your family thinks you’re nuts to get involved and won’t help you. So, no, it’s not simple. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/139 "2015-08-26T18:06:57Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Well, really, it’s simple. Two kids are fighting over a ball. Take the ball away. What happens? Is this an oversimplification? Yes. But your idea that it will not decrease the violence if you separate two groups who hate each other and kill each other, that that will not decrease the violence, this idea is also an oversimplification. Logistics alone would dictate that the violence will lessen. You’re not dealing with children having a playground squabble. You’re not going to make people forget a Holy City the way you’d make a child forget a ball. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693/140 "2015-08-26T18:11:21Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The response to the OP is a regular trail of jeers. 😃 I had to acknowledge this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idea-for-peace-in-the-jerusalem-isreal/728693.md?page=8)