# An idiot Ambassador is confirmed **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 3, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235 "2014-12-03T16:48:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235/41 "2014-12-04T04:41:41Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > You need someone to represent your country at stuff, even if it just a handshake and a smile. The VP can’t be _everywhere_ And if we had, say, some select ambassadors to cover the pleasantries for a region, I could see the point. Selling the position to complete tits isn’t exactly my idea of ensuring we have even the most minimally-capable people in place. If we want to send over random pseudo-celebrities to meet-n-greet, then that would also be fine. They don’t need to be ambassadors, either. > [@even sven](#): > > Ambassadors serve as the high-level attendant at meetings, talks and functions (for which they are provided extensive notes and briefings by the technical experts on the subject.) This may not seem important to you, but it’s important to basically everyone else. Send your technical officer to meet a Prime Minister, and you are going to offend the whole darn nation. Americans may be egalitarian and free wheelin’, but protocol is a big honking deal to most of the other diplomats we work with and we can’t just ignore it. So give the title to the current top-ranked diplomat, or have a cadre of ambassadorial-level people to cover important affairs who can actually be trusted with actual authorities. > [@](#): > > Beyond that, Ambassadors are the top authority in the office, which can’t be discounted. They are ultimately responsible for how the Embassy is run, keeping employees out of trouble, making sure everyone is hitting all their targets, and generally making sure everything is managed well. In fact, that doesn’t seem to be the case at all. Outside of pretenses, their actually authority seems to be virtually nonexistent. They have become meaningless figureheads with no real power. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235/42 "2014-12-04T04:46:28Z")
You would think that she would at least have read the Wikipedia article about Hungary before the hearing. Anyway, the Ambassador to Hungary probably took some actual skill in the late 60’s. Not so much now. George HW Bush appointed his first cousin. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235/43 "2014-12-04T06:47:45Z")
The problem with Bell’s appointment is that it’s diverting our nation’s attention away from the real crisis facing America: Benghazi. In other words, this is just another event that the Republicans are trying to work up as a scandal. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235/44 "2014-12-04T07:32:15Z")
Am I the only one here who’s been reading Krugman’s blog for years? He used to donate blog entries to a friend who would write about Hungary’s constitutional situation. Hungary is a mess. Internal political crisis, constitutional reforms that stink of quasi-fascist nationalism, general thumbing of the metaphorical nose at liberal Europe and internationalism. If Ms. Bell has an actual interest in Hungary, that’s fine. But if she thinks she’s just going to Western Europe, I think she’s really unprepared. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235/45 "2014-12-04T07:32:58Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Americans may be egalitarian and free wheelin’, but protocol is a big honking deal to most of the other diplomats we work with and we can’t just ignore it. Outsiders generally feel the American Washington establishment is, along with the French, the most protocolic and etiquette-obsessed of all the major diplomatic, military and political powers. With Great Power comes Great Pomposity. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235/46 "2014-12-04T08:02:43Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Outsiders generally feel the American Washington establishment is, along with the French, the most protocolic and etiquette-obsessed of all the major diplomatic, military and political powers. > With Great Power comes Great Pomposity. ## I had no idea. Can I politely ask for cite? This seems worth exploring. I see that Japan gets top tier politicians (a cut above the career diplomat, I’m guessing). [List of ambassadors of the United States to Japan - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Ambassador_to_Japan) ## Ambassadors to Hungary: [List of ambassadors of the United States to Hungary - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Ambassador_to_Hungary) I see we appointed career FSOs before and after the Fall of the Berlin Wall. Since then it’s been all political appointees. [This donor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Herbert_Walker_III) (and former CEO) had the job from 2003-2006. Saint Cad - So far you don’t have much IMHO. How about revisiting the issue in another 6-12 months and see whether you can dig up any flubs? The underlying issue is interesting and the thread worthy. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235/47 "2014-12-04T08:34:32Z")
> [@](#): > > An idiot Ambassador is confirmed **Saint Cad** , are you contending that Amnassador Bell has a subnormal IQ? Or is it the appointment/confirmation that you think shows idiocy – just a way to impugn the off-color President outside the Pit? > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The problem with Bell’s appointment is that it’s diverting our nation’s attention away from the real crisis facing America: Benghazi. Yes, **Saint Cad** , your views seem very … interesting. What are your feelings about Benghazi? ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235/48 "2014-12-04T09:04:54Z")
The Orbán government’s antics have been international news these last four years; in view of strained relations between Hungary and the US (as well as between Hungary and the rest of the EU) this ambassadorship is definitely not a sinecure. See for example [this article](http://www.bbj.hu/politics/us-embassy-our-main-concern-is-democracy_88073) - ‘gross lie’ is _not_ your usual public diplomat-speak between allied countries. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235/49 "2014-12-04T15:17:59Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > But, Hungary does border Ukraine and if that falls into Russian orbit, it will be right on the frontline. Bad bad idea to appoint someone who does not it appears read the news and know geography. And this was my take on it (see below). If you asked me about our strategic interests is Hungary, even without doing any in-depth research I and probably most people on this board could at least articulate something about stability in a region with ever-growing Russian expansion, developing ties with a European Union member and ensuring the safety of a NATO ally. > [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > And if we had, say, some select ambassadors to cover the pleasantries for a region, I could see the point. Selling the position to complete tits isn’t exactly my idea of ensuring we have even the most minimally-capable people in place. I had to read this twice. My first thought reading it was “So what if she’s a woman?” > [@septimus](#): > > **Saint Cad** , are you contending that Amnassador Bell has a subnormal IQ? Or is it the appointment/confirmation that you think shows idiocy – just a way to impugn the off-color President outside the Pit? Way to poison the well implying I’m a racist and I oppose Bell’s appointment because of the color of Obama’s skin. Even though your question doesn’t deserve a response because you clearly do not want to hear any answer and any answer I do write you’ll just interpret as “I hate Obama because he’s a n\*\*\*\*r!” I’ll give it anyways. If you are going in front of the Senate for a confirmation hearing you should be prepared - especially one that is hostile to many of Obama’s nominations on sheer principle. It is also a job interview - think of it as a second interview. If you are in that situation and cannot clearly articulate why you are qualified for the job, what you are prepared to do while Ambassador and have at least the basic information of the country in question (See above), then you are an idiot for not being prepared. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235/50 "2014-12-04T15:44:13Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Yes, **Saint Cad** , your views seem very … interesting. What are your feelings about Benghazi? No clue what that has to do with the OP but I’ll bite knowing you’re itching for a fight. Obama has a failing in that he doesn’t learn from history. Especially after the Iran Crisis in 1979 he should have known that in an unstable & anti-American country, embassy (both physical and personnel) security needs to be increased dramatically. Given everything going on, the fact that on the anniversary of 9/11 the staff was not in the main embassy with every Marine ready to go lock-and-loaded was a huge mistake. If your question is about if I thought there was a coverup, then no. We were poorly prepared for an “event” happening there. People with too little information were speaking before knowing all the facts and Clinton was very forthright that she failed in having the consulate prepared. But there’s no coverup. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235/51 "2014-12-04T16:07:42Z")
> [@furt](#): > > I think McCain is a bit overheated, but I think Shodan is underestimating the sketchiness of that neighborhood. Eastern Europe is not an uncomplicated place. Perhaps I am, but [list=a][li]I don’t know of many neighborhoods in this troubled old world that are a lot better. Maybe being ambassador to the Vatican or Luxembourg would be easier, but I think those slots are taken.[/li][li]I doubt we will react any slower or differently if Putin invades Ukraine with this TV producer as ambassador than if we had some life-long career hack. All the relevant decisions, including what to say to prevent such an invasion, are going to be made in DC.[/list][/li]Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235/52 "2014-12-04T18:35:33Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I see we appointed career FSOs before and after the Fall of the Berlin Wall. Since then it’s been all political appointees. And I don’t think the issue is so much with political appointees in non-crisis countries. I wouldn’t want hack dealing with Crimea right now but does anyone really care who is sitting in Ottawa right now? But in the name of god get someone with a little knowledge of what’s going on. Look at the background of Eleni Kounalakis from your list, a political appointee sure but I don’t think anyone would have had the least concern if she were ambassador to Greece. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235/53 "2014-12-04T18:52:54Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > And I don’t think the issue is so much with political appointees in non-crisis countries. I wouldn’t want hack dealing with Crimea right now but does anyone really care who is sitting in Ottawa right now? Actually, considering the enormous amount of trade we do with Canada, I would consider that a fairly important post. I understand your point, and to some degree I agree with it, but ambassador is just not that important a post nowadays. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235/54 "2014-12-05T00:06:30Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > **Saint Cad** , are you contending that Amnassador Bell has a subnormal IQ? Or is it the appointment/confirmation that you think shows idiocy – just a way to impugn the off-color President outside the Pit. This sort of not very veiled accusation of racism has no place in this discussion and, really, no place in Great Debates. Knock it off. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235/55 "2014-12-05T05:22:51Z")
Out of curiosity, I just looked up who the British ambassador to the US was, and [he’s a career diplomat/civil servant](https://www.gov.uk/government/people/peter-westmacott). Wondering if perhaps the unimportant but sunny postings got political appointees, I looked up the High Commissioner for Jamaica but [he’s](https://www.gov.uk/government/people/david-fitton) a civil servant too. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235/56 "2014-12-05T06:25:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Out of curiosity, I just looked up who the British ambassador to the US was, and [he’s a career diplomat/civil servant](https://www.gov.uk/government/people/peter-westmacott). Wondering if perhaps the unimportant but sunny postings got political appointees, I looked up the High Commissioner for Jamaica but [he’s](https://www.gov.uk/government/people/david-fitton) a civil servant too. I think the British electoral system is different enough that you don’t have the kind of political donors who need to get paid off for their support that you have in America. Besides if the British want to honor somebody, they can hook them up with a knighthood. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235/57 "2014-12-05T07:01:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Out of curiosity, I just looked up who the British ambassador to the US was, and [he’s a career diplomat/civil servant](https://www.gov.uk/government/people/peter-westmacott). Wondering if perhaps the unimportant but sunny postings got political appointees, I looked up the High Commissioner for Jamaica but [he’s](https://www.gov.uk/government/people/david-fitton) a civil servant too. I don’t think it’s particularly common outside the USA to pick ambassadors who aren’t career diplomats. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235/58 "2014-12-05T08:14:43Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I don’t think it’s particularly common outside the USA to pick ambassadors who aren’t career diplomats. It’s a distinctively American practice, I think. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235/59 "2014-12-05T13:15:31Z")
What about Noah Mamet, the other guy Jon Stewart mentioned, who doesn’t speak Spanish but is going to be our ambassador to Argentina? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235/60 "2014-12-05T15:19:07Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I don’t think it’s particularly common outside the USA to pick ambassadors who aren’t career diplomats. Well, it’s alright. Diplomacy was never our strong suit anyway. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-idiot-ambassador-is-confirmed/706235.md?page=4)