# An Ignorant American Leader For The Unknowing Masses? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 6, 2000, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789 "2000-03-06T21:56:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WillGolfForFood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/82dd89/32.png) [@WillGolfForFood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillGolfForFood)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2000, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789/21 "2000-03-07T12:07:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Otto: > But, the last time I checked, Canada was part of the Americas. Hey, do we hafta include _every_ fringe group? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2000, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789/22 "2000-03-07T14:14:00Z")
As usual, the only defense Freedom has for his candidate, George W. Reagan, is a pathetic defense. When it comes to issues vs, bumper-stickers, you _know_ which one he’ll pick! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Freedomx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4af34b/32.png) [@Freedomx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedomx)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2000, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789/23 "2000-03-07T14:44:00Z")
I’m sorry… When did I say George Bush was my candidate? I am squarely behind Gore/Sharpton 2000. ---
**Author:** ![Freedomx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4af34b/32.png) [@Freedomx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedomx)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2000, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789/24 "2000-03-07T14:47:00Z")
And where on this thread did ANYONE talk about issues? This entire thread is about mud-slinging. I’m not a huge GW fan, but c’mon… Surely you don’t see an issue being discussed in here? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2000, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789/25 "2000-03-07T15:50:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Celine Dion is NON-AMERICAN ; she is Canadian. When Canada is dead and gone, there’ll be no more Celine Dion! 😉 * * * The mark of a truly great mind isn’t whether you’re right or wrong. It’s how well you can weasel out of a jam. - Unca Cecil ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2000, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789/26 "2000-03-07T16:15:00Z")
Seems that MHL raised an issue: awareness of the basics of what’s going on in the world. The pop quiz somebody hit Dubya with a few months back was a bit unfair, but if a guy wants to be President, knowing who’s running Canada and Mexico should be a base level part of his cultural literacy. Of course, he doesn’t seem to know much about Texas - like, to the extent that hunger’s still a problem in America, Texas is one of the leading states where it’s a problem. Aside from that, I don’t see what the guy is running on: he’s a ‘compassionate conservative’ who seems to have little compassion of his own, and sucks up to compassionate Christian leaders like Pat Robertson and Bob Jones; his character is going to be a clear break from Clinton, but where he stands on anything seems to be even more changeable than Clinton, hard as that would have been to imagine. He’s now a ‘reformer with results’ who’s taking credit for reforms that were passed in Texas by overriding his vetoes. What’s this guy’s candidacy _about_, I keep wondering. Is there any ‘there’ there? ---
**Author:** ![cleosia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@cleosia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cleosia)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2000, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789/27 "2000-03-07T17:22:00Z")
Mary Hart’s Legs > [@](#): > > The video evidence of George’s ignorance was aired on “This Hour Has 22 Minutes”, for anyone who doesn’t understand my OP. > > But, then again, how could you expect to know the source of the video in question when america’s media ensures that some of you stay ignorant. I guess that’s so much worse than the government censorship displayed in Canada during the Ken and Barbie Murder trial. * * * Bitch by Birth ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2000, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789/28 "2000-03-07T17:34:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Freedom: > \*\*And where on this thread did ANYONE talk about issues? > > This entire thread is about mud-slinging. I’m not a huge GW fan, but c’mon… > Surely you don’t see an issue being discussed in here? > > \*\* Yeah, that’s the ticket, **Freedom**. Fight slavering knee-jerk rhetoric with **more** slavering knee-jerk rhetoric. That’s helpful. :rolleyes: -andros- ---
**Author:** ![Freedomx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4af34b/32.png) [@Freedomx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedomx)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2000, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789/29 "2000-03-07T17:51:00Z")
I’m not fighting anything. I don’t like either of those guys. I just recognize that there is not one issue being discussed on this thread. The OP was about Bush being a moron. I thought quips about albore’s being just as much a moron fit. They are both morons. They are both leading candidates for president. Call me crazy, but I think my comments fit in here. With the exception of RTFirefly, nobody is even TRYING to discuss issues here, and you pop out of nowhere and try to call ME alone on mudslinging. And then you try to assume some moral high ground? Maybe if you had come out and denouced the entire thread, or everyone it it that was throwing around “slavering knee-jerk rhetoric,” I would take you seriously. Obviously you have an agenda and support albore over the shrub since only one side of the insults bothered you. No thanks. I don’t like either of these guys. I think one is a lessor evil than the other, but that’s about it. You can take you selective morals elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2000, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789/30 "2000-03-08T06:12:00Z")
Wow, you managed to read me perfectly, **Freedom**. You’re amazing! You guessed that I’m a liberal Democrat Al Gore drone! And you figured all that out simply by completely inventing my opinions for me out of thin air! Look, pally, I didn’t single you out for anything. The only other person slinging mud is **MHL** , and as I recall I called that post slavering knee-jerk rhetoric. It’s a spade, I called it one. That isn’t singling you out. The slams on Bush and Gore don’t make much difference to me, as I don’t invest much of my emotional stability on either of them. Actually, the OP annoys me a little more than any of your Sharpton love-fest stuff, simply because it’s from a Canuck accusing Americans of being ill-informed idiots. (“Hey, he can’t do that to our pledges! Only we can do that to our pledges!”) **My point is simply that if you don’t like people bashing Dubya it won’t help much to sink to their level.** Whatever your agenda, how many people will you convince that way? As an example, do you think **JohnJohn** is persuading anyone that Hillary Clinton is a poor candidate with his Fat Ass thread? And it seems you might have missed the point. The OP was _not_ an evil VLWC\* operative trying to subvert the Republican Party, it’s a very anti-American Canadian trolling with jingoistic BS as bait. Christ on a flatbed, it’s not a moral issue, so please don’t make it one. -andros- (\* Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy) ---
**Author:** ![Freedomx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4af34b/32.png) [@Freedomx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedomx)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2000, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789/31 "2000-03-07T19:21:00Z")
My apologies andros. I don’t mind bashing the shrub. I have a little problem with one family in America holding so much power. (1 past CIA director/president and two govenors of major states. With one of those a leading contendor for the presidency.) I like bashing them all actually. 🙂 Of course I am a voting American, so does that make different from MHL? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2000, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789/32 "2000-03-07T20:30:00Z")
Quote by Otto: “Benedict Arnold was a patriot; he served his country…his country being England.” Sorry, Charlie, Benedict Arnold was a double turncoat by your logic. He was one of the Continentals’ most enthusiastic leaders in the early days of the War – leading Americans to victory at Ticonderoga and leading the unsuccessful invasion of Canada. He also played a major role in the pivotal victory at Saratoga. Hell, Arnold may have been our best general in that war. However, when the Continental Congress screwed him over, he went over to the British side. By no stretch of the imagination, can he be called a great patriot, American or British. * * * The Coyote gnaws … but he does not swallow. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2000, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789/33 "2000-03-07T22:06:00Z")
It was a joke. Get a grip. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2000, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789/34 "2000-03-07T22:34:00Z")
And if it wasn’t for the the American Patriots’ stunning victory in Ticonderoga, our pencils would be called “Cornwallis”. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2000, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789/35 "2000-03-08T02:49:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Freedom: > \*\*Personally, > > I want a president with vision, a president who invented the internet. A president who discoved Love Canal. A president who puts Bill Cinton right up there with George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln. > > I want Al Bore. > > (this does seem to be a very pit worthy thread)\*\* I’m hijacking, but I would like to point out that the whole Love Canal thing was a misquote. A show on PRI (the radio people, not the ruling party of Mexico) on the media discussed this at length, which included playing the actual transcript of Al’s speech in which the alleged comment was made. I heard it, and I can tell you that he never once claimed to have discovered Love Canal. The point of his speech was that a high school student in Tennessee had written to him years ago about her suspicions that her local water was contaminated, and he led an inquiry into the matter, and it was discovered that the water was indeed polluted. He was trying to convince high school students that they can be active participants in the democratic process. However, the reporters from the NY Times and the Washington Post both misheard his mention of Love Canal (after all, he claimed to invent the internet, he likes to take credit for everything, right?) and although both eventually retracted their statements, I guess word never got around. Sorry for the hijack. GWB is an idiot, though. There’s already thread on this very subject in MPSIMS, btw. * * * ~Harborina “Don’t Do It.” ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2000, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789/36 "2000-03-08T13:24:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I want Al Bore. I’ll go along with that. After Clinton, I’m ready for a boring president. 🙂 * * * The mark of a truly great mind isn’t whether you’re right or wrong. It’s how well you can weasel out of a jam. - Unca Cecil ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789/37 "2000-03-13T02:17:00Z")
YOO-Hoo! Comrade MAR-y! Come out and PLA-y! No MHL? How odd. * * * You should tell the truth, expose the lies and live in the moment."-Bill Hicks “You should tell the lies, live the truth and expose yourself.” - Bill Clinton ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2000, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789/38 "2000-03-18T19:40:00Z")
“Hunger” is a problem in TExas? I live in Texas, and the only way you can claim that hunger is a problem here (or in the U.S.A. in general) is to redefine hunger entirely. Face facts: the U.S. is NOT Ethiopia. NOBODY dies of starvation in the United States. So, when left-wing groups start tossing around claims like “One in four American children goes to bed hungry,” the proper response is EXACTLY the response Gerge W. Bush gave: “Nonsense! SHOW me the hungry.” ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2000, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789/39 "2000-03-18T20:09:00Z")
A search on Webcrawler using “hunger” turn up over 6600 hits. They’re all “left-wing” groups? One of the first sites is by that notoriously left-wing faction, Texas hunters. Maybe next time Dubya goes dove-hunting he can ask his buddies where the hungry people are. Or maybe he can open the phone book and call a food pantry, or even visit a food pantry and see the hungry people there for himself. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2000, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789/40 "2000-03-18T21:56:00Z")
No, not all the web sites that mention the word “hunger” are created by left-wing groups. Many are restaurants, many are porn sites, many are talking about problems in the Third World. What NONE of them can honestly claim is that hunger and starvation are widespread in ANY part of the United States. Left-wing groups with an agenda (and RIGHT-wing groups with an agenda) regularly twist statistics, or just plain LIE, to further their pet causes. This is ESPECIALLY true when times are good! For example, it’s mighty hard for the Christian Right to claim that the USA is going straight to Hell in a moral sense, when every indicator shows that things like crime, abortion and premarital sex are going DOWN! But that doesn’t stop many right-wing Christian groups from claiming just that! Let’s face it, if you want to raise money, you HAVE to get peopel excited. If the facts don’t justify that, well, you’re liable to twist the facts, to get people in a dander. Well, left-wing groups have the same problem. By EVERY standard, the US economy is strong, and jobs are plentiful. NOBODY is starving. The only way anyone can claim there’s “hunger” in America is to redefine “hunger” to include practically everybody in America. And sure enough, that’s exactly what left-wing activists do. Again, ALL activists of ALL political persuasions do this. To raise funds, they HAVE to tell people the sky is falling, even when it isn’t. Black activists CONSTANTLY use scare tactics (Congress is taking away your right to vote!), and so do the NRA (jackbooted thugs are coming to steal your guns!), the ACLU (fascism is around the corner), Pat Buchanan (your jobs are going to MExico!)… even though, by any standard, most Americans have never had it so good, and our prosperity and civil liberties havce never been so secure! EVen in good times, scare tactics work. Well, it just so happens that I contribute regularly to various food pantries here in Texas, and you know what? These pantries rarely want FOOD! That’s because, execpt for the druggies/psychotics/alcoholics who live on the streets, almost NONE of their clients are going hungry. Almost all of them get Food Stamps, and they eat fine. What they often DON’T have are basic toiletries (shampoo, deodorant, toothpaste, etc.), because those are things you can’t buy with Food Stamps. ANyone who tries to make hunger an issue clealy has a left-wing agenda. I repeat, there is poverty in America, but it’s RELATIVE poverty. Our poor have a standard of living that Third Worlders aspire to reach. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-ignorant-american-leader-for-the-unknowing-masses/17789.md?page=3)