# An inapropos thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 23, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-inapropos-thread/332456 "2005-11-23T19:20:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Quint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/76d3ee/32.png) [@Quint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-inapropos-thread/332456/81 "2005-11-26T05:36:03Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Meryl Streep: exceptional > K.K. Dodds: average > > Period. Well, despite the fact that I wasn’t actually trying to engage you in a discussion on the relative merits of these two actresses, I think your curt and oh so not to the point reply pretty much ends any discussion we may have engaged in. My final attempt. **An** epitome- a typical or ideal example **THE** epitome- An example so typical as to be prototypical. An ideally typical example. The example most likely to appear as the number one choice on the board during “The Family Feud”. Period. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-inapropos-thread/332456/82 "2005-11-26T05:47:54Z")
My “period” was meant to convey that “it’s just that simple,” not that I was done listening to you. I was trying to break it down to its most basic issue; the “period” just meant “here it is in a nutshell.” Your focus on the “a” or the “the” is beside the point; it’s just a way of speaking. You can say “the average housewife” without obsessing on the “the” and reading its “\*\*THE \*\*average housewife.” Or “the basic whatever.” “K.K. Dodds is the epitome of the American actress” means “K.K. Dodds is representative of the average American actress.” Obsessing on the article “a” or “the” is beside the point. In other words, “epitome” is used with “the,” like “enamored” is used with “of.” It’s just established usage, and doesn’t alter the correct definition of the word. ---
**Author:** ![Quint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/76d3ee/32.png) [@Quint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-inapropos-thread/332456/83 "2005-11-26T21:53:50Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Your focus on the “a” or the “the” is beside the point; it’s just a way of speaking. You can say “the average housewife” without obsessing on the “the” and reading its “\*\*THE \*\*average housewife.” Or “the basic whatever.” > > “K.K. Dodds is the epitome of the American actress” means “K.K. Dodds is representative of the average American actress.” Obsessing on the article “a” or “the” is beside the point. > > In other words, “epitome” is used with “the,” like “enamored” is used with “of.” It’s just established usage, and doesn’t alter the correct definition of the word. Well, I respectfully disagree. The establish usage of “epitome” is with “the”, yes, and that is precisely why the expression is used to mean “the ideal example”. In **David Simmonds** example “Dennis Rodman is the epitome of the modern, spolied-rotten, professional athelete” there is no superlative implied of stated. However, the statement does say that when a person thinks of a “spoiled- rotten professional athelete” Dennis Rodman immediatley springs to mind. Not because he’s the best athelete, or the most professional, or even the most spoiled. For that person he is the best example, he is **THE** epitome. So, as far as I’m concerned, K.K. Dodds could be described as the epitome of the average american actress, but not as the epitome of american actresses. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-inapropos-thread/332456/84 "2005-11-26T23:14:03Z")
> [@Quint](#): > > Well, I respectfully disagree. The establish usage of “epitome” is with “the”, yes, and that is precisely why the expression is used to mean “the ideal example”. > In **David Simmonds** example “Dennis Rodman is the epitome of the modern, spolied-rotten, professional athelete” there is no superlative implied of stated. However, the statement does say that when a person thinks of a “spoiled- rotten professional athelete” Dennis Rodman immediatley springs to mind. Not because he’s the best athelete, or the most professional, or even the most spoiled. For that person he is the best example, he is **THE** epitome. So, as far as I’m concerned, K.K. Dodds could be described as the epitome of the average american actress, but not as the epitome of american actresses. Dude, the correct usage of the word “epitome” does not rise and fall based on MY ability, as an individual, to convince YOU, as an individual, of what that usage is. The truth is out there. Don’t take my word for it, do your own research. The fact that I can’t find a way to communicate it in such a way that you get it, doesn’t mean that you’re right. It just means that I’m not making myself clear to you. But here’s the thing: it’s not up to me. I did not invent the word, I did not develop its usage, and I am not, ultimately, responsible for whether you get it or not. The simple, objective, googleable FACT is that you don’t quite understand how to use the word “epitome.” Fine, whatever. Not my problem. Look it up. ---
**Author:** ![Quint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/76d3ee/32.png) [@Quint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-inapropos-thread/332456/85 "2005-11-27T07:12:27Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Dude, the correct usage of the word “epitome” does not rise and fall based on MY ability, as an individual, to convince YOU, as an individual, of what that usage is. The truth is out there. Don’t take my word for it, do your own research. The fact that I can’t find a way to communicate it in such a way that you get it, doesn’t mean that you’re right. It just means that I’m not making myself clear to you. But here’s the thing: it’s not up to me. I did not invent the word, I did not develop its usage, and I am not, ultimately, responsible for whether you get it or not. > > The simple, objective, googleable FACT is that you don’t quite understand how to use the word “epitome.” Fine, whatever. Not my problem. > > Look it up. Wow. For a guy who complains about facing “snark in all directions”, you sure don’t mind dishing it out. “Googleable FACT” huh? OK… in all cases, bolding mine: > [@The Columbia Guide to Standard American English](#): > > “a summary or a brief statement covering a longer topic,” as in His brief statement is an epitome of the full manifesto, or “a typical or an ideal example of something,” as in **She is the epitome of good manners. There is a difference of opinion over whether an epitome is only typical or whether it must be ideal.** > [@Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary](#): > > a typical or ideal example : EMBODIMENT \ RE: The Epitome > [@The American heritage Dictionary of the English Language](#): > > Grant, Cary > Originally Archibald Alexander Leach. > > British-born American actor who was **the epitome of the elegant leading man** in films such as The Philadelphia Story (1940) and North by Northwest (1959). > [@Simpson's Contemporary Quotations](#): > > Gerald R Ford, 38th US President > > QUOTATION: > The three-martini lunch is **the epitome** of American efficiency. Where else can you get an earful, a bellyful and a snootful at the same time? > [@Simpson's Contemporary Quotations](#): > > : > Elie Wiesel, Nobel Peace Prize Winner > > QUOTATION: > Indifference, to me, is **the epitome** of evil. > [@The Columbia Encyclopedia](#): > > The custom of employing eunuchs as servants in wealthy or royal households is very ancient; it reached **its epitome** at the court of Constantinople under the Byzantine emperors, from whom the Ottoman sultans adopted it. In each of these examples except for the last I submit that the meaning would be vastly different had the quote stated “an epitome” as opposed to “the epitome”. IMHO “an epitome”= typical example, “the epitome”= ideal example. On a note regarding your interpretation of “the epitome” (which I must sadly infer, as, despite numerous requests, you have yet to state concretely what you are so sure it means)- what in your view is the difference in meaning between the following two statements: 1. K.K. Dobbs is the epitome of an American actress. 2. k.K. Dobbs is an American actress. Extra points for a well written, snark-free, enlightening post. I think you have a point to make, you’re just making a weak effort. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-inapropos-thread/332456.md?page=4)