# An Interesting Day, indeed (Bush on the morning of 9/11) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 10, 2004, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432 "2004-07-10T14:13:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![High\_Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8797f3/32.png) [@High\_Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/High_Cheese)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432/81 "2004-07-11T20:28:53Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > There’s more, much more, but all that alone is enough to make my head spin. He was even more irresponsible than I knew! > > How can anyone defend this man’s actions (or rather, non-actions) on this morning? Is that all it takes to convince someone of something these days? one website? And why solicit people to defend “…this man’s actions…” when, cleary, you’ve convinced us his actions are wholly undefendable? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432/82 "2004-07-11T21:53:40Z")
What a great and informative thread this has become with some excellent arguments and points on both sides. Refreshing. Thanks to Equipoise for opening it and to almost everyone who has participated. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432/83 "2004-07-12T01:31:26Z")
> [@Shaolinrabbit](#): > > It’s one thing to have inaccurate reports from air traffic control and etc. around the country, and it’s something entirely different to believe that they didn’t know about every aircraft flying around the President. > > As far as staying and reading the book to the kids, I would assume he was told to do that as a standard procedure. They make what they do look easy, but having been around a few secure events in my life, I can tell you they check everything out to a degree that would seem ridiculous under any other circumstances. As experts in assassination ourselves, our various agents know exactly how easy it is to kill a world leader. They don’t change plans until new plans are made, period. Unless it becomes unsafe for some reason, there’s no reason for them to change that, and it would probably be irresponsible to do so. Plenty of people in the global power game have died as a result of nothing more important than using the wrong spoon, walking into the wrong bathroom, or picking up the wrong book. > > It wouldn’t surprise me at all if he was told in the motorcade on the way there and they decided to go ahead with it until they figured something else out. Everything that entered into his planned environment at the school was carefully checked beforehand, down to the hallways he was going to use, and the children who were going to be there. They would have had extraction plans and contingencies for possible assassination already set up. If they still do things they way they did back in the 1980’s, there were also two pilots sitting in a ready room with their gear on since 5 AM with fueled jets ready to go within a few minutes reach. They plan for everything from an object that may be coated with a nerve agent, to a thermonuclear war. I can certainly agree that they work hard to establish a zone of protection, but I find it exceptionally hard to believe that their plans and practice do not include some sort of emergency evacuation procedure. You know, for when an emergency strikes the US, like a nuclear strike or terrorists launching a major attack. I also find it hard to believe that they would regard sitting still in an elementary school as “the safest place to be.” I am sure that if the President decides to leave, or it is decided for him, they can move pretty fast. If nothing else, he at least needed to be conferring with people and making decisions. Surely you agree that folks were struggling to make decisions that day, and were in need of leaders, no? What would have been the safety risk involved in moving into the hall or another part of the building, putting people around him, and putting him on the phone? Sorry, you may think it reasonable for him to sit there, fiddling with the display next to him, but I don’t buy it. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432/84 "2004-07-12T07:41:13Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > I am sure that if the President decides to leave, or it is decided for him, they can move pretty fast. And you don’t think seven minutes is fast? Is there anything he could have done that you would not be criticizing? How do we know that had he left in say, four minutes, you would not be saying that he seemed to be panicked and directionless? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432/85 "2004-07-12T07:54:42Z")
Forget seven minutes – by some accounts, Bush was in the classroom for up to a half-hour: > [@](#): > > "Mr. Bush remained in the elementary school for **nearly a half an hour** after Andy Card whispered in his ear.” > –"Bush: US To Hunt Down Attackers,” _Boston Globe,_ 9/11/2001 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432/86 "2004-07-12T08:05:32Z")
So, because of “some accounts”, we just forget the others? I thought people insisted that Moore had fact-checked this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432/87 "2004-07-12T08:27:11Z")
> [@High Cheese](#): > > Is that all it takes to convince someone of something these days? one website? Why no, but thanks for asking. After buying into the accepted view of the president being in charge and decisive that morning, it took Michael Moore’s **Fahrenheit 9/11** to open my eyes to the fact that maybe things weren’t exactly how I had thought. I determined to learn more about this (and a lot of other things). That website helped, but mainly because I clicked on the links and read the CITES that were provided. (Disclaimer: there are so many I’m only a little over halfway through the article wrt reading every single cite. I have no opinions of what happened after he left the school because I don’t know enough yet.) It seems that nowadays all it takes to convince someone of something is put it on the evening news. If only more people would go searching for other outlets. I’m just beginning. I was never very political-minded until recenly. Politics bores the hell out of me. Now it’s scaring the hell out of me and pissing me off. I’m neither smart nor dumb. I’m pretty average. I was unaware of a lot of what’s been going on though and my eyes are being opened. I’m reading political books for the first time in my life. I just finished “Against All Enemies” by Richard Clarke, and I’m reading “The Politics of Truth: Inside the Lies that Led to War and Betrayed My Wife’s CIA Identity: A Diplomat’s Memoir” by Joseph Wilson now. I’m a Stephen King and non-fiction/biography person, so these are unusual for me. They make me angry at the administration, for several reasons of course, but in particular, if the president and administration can alienate 2 such dedicated, loyal, career civil servants who love their country and love their jobs, something is definitely wrong (not that I didn’t know that already, but these books bring it home). These men are the types of people we want IN the government, but they’re being pushed, shoved, thrown away. > [@High Cheese](#): > > And why solicit people to defend “…this man’s actions…” when, cleary, you’ve convinced us his actions are wholly undefendable? I wouldn’t be so bold as to think I would convince anyone of anything. As to why ask people to defend him, it was part indignant posturing, part “tell me something I’m not getting” (which actually happened, too) and partly because I love seeing people like you pop up. Tell me, did you even read that web site? > [@Liberal](#): > > What a great and informative thread this has become with some excellent arguments and points on both sides. Refreshing. Agreed. Thank you all. > [@wring](#): > > 1. I believe that Bush erred in remaining at the school. Regardless of other concerns or even if there was literally nothing he could do at the time, to have maintained the ‘routine’ schedule at the point where you know decidedly that it’s not a ‘routine’ day, was politically a stupid move, and frankly, I think the major reason certain folks were so rigorous in their attempts to keep _F911_ from the screen. It certainly worked on me, if that was their fear. > [@wring](#): > > 1. My point in this thread was a very narrow one in that it appeared to me that the OP was deriding Bush for remaining at the school, thus making the kids targets (assuming that the school was a target), ie, that Bush should have left, and there fore the kids would have been safe. It was not clear to me that the OP thought the entire school should have been evacuated (in the unlikelhood that it was a target). I’m sorry I was unclear about wanting the school to be evacuated. I said it in a post on the first page, but it was almost an offhand comment. I’ve changed my mind (about evacuating the school) from an intellectual viewpoint, but I still have this emotional GET OUT! GET OUT! GET OUT! gut feeling. I suppose that has more to do with the World Trade Center than anything. I still cry and cringe when I think of all the people in the first tower who were evacuating but then told to go back to their offices. Many did, and died. The ones who defied authority/listened to their instinct/wanted the excuse to goof off/any number of reasons, lived. What that has to do with a school in Florida, I don’t know, but they were connected in my mind. > [@xenophon41](#): > > If you care one way or the other about a second Bush term of office, then I can’t imagine why you would consider the OP’s “Interesting Day” of no importance. And if you perceive this administration to be as deceitful and villanous as I do, then I do not understand your resistance to the revelation of their “trivial” deceits along with the larger ones; it is the very banality of evil which makes it so insidious, is it not? I wanted to say thank you for this post. I was beginning to think I shouldn’t have started this thread, and your post and all the other thoughtful posts made me feel better about it. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432/88 "2004-07-12T10:21:44Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Why no, but thanks for asking. After buying into the accepted view of the president being in charge and decisive that morning, it took Michael Moore’s Fahrenheit 9/11 to open my eyes to the fact that maybe things weren’t exactly how I had thought. It seems to me that anybody — me, you, even George Bush — given the benefit of three years of research, analysis, hindsight, contextualization, and near omniscience about 9/11 could manufacture what he believes to be certain definitive “take charge” measures. Considering the scope and magnitude not only of the event but of the fog of war that day, criticism of his seven minutes (half-hour, whatever) seems petty beyond belief. In fact, it seems downright unreasonable, at least to me. I mention this only by way of contrast, even though I realize that it might set a few knees to jerking, but consider how Bill Clinton reacted to the Monica Lewinsky affair. He had a lot longer than seven minutes (half-hour, whatever) to concoct something bettter than his shakey finger speech and his bauble about the meaning of “is”. Yeah, I know that they are not comparable events, but that’s the point. A great philosopher once said, “If you cannot handle the little things, how can you be expected to handle the big things?” If you are willing to cut Clinton slack for his extended deer in the headlights PR disaster, can you not at the very least cut Bush a bit of slack for his reaction — however inadequate you perceive it to be — while in the very throes of the very beginning of one of the darkest days in American history? > [@](#): > > I’ve changed my mind (about evacuating the school) from an intellectual viewpoint, but I still have this emotional GET OUT! GET OUT! GET OUT! gut feeling. I suppose that has more to do with the World Trade Center than anything. It really isn’t at all clear that even Bush himself should have exited quickly. Do not overlook Shaolinrabbit’s excellent point that, given Secret Service procedures, there was likely no safer place on earth that day than the elementary school where he was. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432/89 "2004-07-12T10:34:18Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > It seems to me that anybody — me, you, even George Bush — given the benefit of three years of research, analysis, hindsight, contextualization, and near omniscience about 9/11 could manufacture what he believes to be certain definitive “take charge” measures. I think you’re missing the point of a lot of this thread. Using hindsight, George _did_ manufacture what he believed to be certain definitive “take charge” measures. And he told people what those definitive “take charge” measures were. And George’s story was revealed to be a childish lie. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432/90 "2004-07-12T10:38:26Z")
I like to think I’d make one hell of a president (I’d be an even better benevolent dictator :)), but to this very day, I haven’t been able to determine whether I’d have pushed to shoot down the planes on that day. While some things in the timeline disturb me, I’m still not sure how I would have reacted to the whole thing, and I think I’m a lot stronger than Bush when it comes to decision making. If it’s not easy to make the calls in hindsight, I can’t imagine making them on the spur of the moment. He definitely screwed up in some ways, and I abhor the fact that he blew his chance to take the international sympathy and do good with it, and using that day as an excuse to go after Iraq was inexcusable, but I just don’t think I can demonize him for that particular day. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432/91 "2004-07-12T10:45:37Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > I think you’re missing the point of a lot of this thread. Using hindsight, George _did_ manufacture what he believed to be certain definitive “take charge” measures. And he told people what those definitive “take charge” measures were. And George’s story was revealed to be a childish lie. No, a childish lie is shaking your finger at your electorate and pretending you don’t know a woman whom you seduced with a makeshift dildo. In the Bush case, there are lots of conflicting stories and, frankly, I’m not sure anyone has the definitive goods on what happened that day. I do, however, commend you for mustering a newfound civility upon reentering the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432/92 "2004-07-12T11:10:31Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I do, however, commend you for mustering a newfound civility upon reentering the thread. Fuck you. :wally ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432/93 "2004-07-12T11:13:23Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Is there anything he could have done that you would not be criticizing? Yes. Getting up and being the President. > [@](#): > > How do we know that had he left in say, four minutes, you would not be saying that he seemed to be panicked and directionless? I guess you can’t, because it didn’t happen. Is there anything that could have happened that wouldn’t cast you in the role of fellatrix? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432/94 "2004-07-12T11:19:41Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > Fuck you. :wally Oh well, pearls to swine and whatnot, I suppose. > [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Yes. Getting up and being the President. He indeed got up, and he indeed was the President. Can you be more specific? > [@](#): > > I guess you can’t, because it didn’t happen. > > Is there anything that could have happened that wouldn’t cast you in the role of fellatrix? Quite many things, and I have expressed them before. Had he acted panicky, or had he scared the children, or had he acted carelessly by attempting to contravene the Secret Service instructions, or had he presumed to be Superman by acting from his emotions, or had he not sought safety for himself as head of government as soon as it became practical — any of these would deserve resounding criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432/95 "2004-07-12T11:20:03Z")
What Desmostylus said. > [@Liberal](#): > > If you are willing to cut Clinton slack for his extended deer in the headlights PR disaster, can you not at the very least cut Bush a bit of slack for his reaction — however inadequate you perceive it to be — while in the very throes of the very beginning of one of the darkest days in American history? Ugh. I am NOT a Clinton supporter, though not for the same reasons as the right-wing. You assume that I cut Clinton slack. You’re so wrong. This bleeding-heart liberal is still pissed off at him, for the moronic affair and for the lie (and all the Republicanish policies, and for fucking up what should have been a glowing historical legacy, and for the DMCA, and several other reasons). Hillary may forgive him, bless her heart, but I won’t. Ever. Ok? That does remind me though, I’d love to see a minute-by-minute account of what Clinton was doing when various emergencies happened, such as Oklahoma City, and the first WTC attack. Anyone know of any reliable sources for such things? (And please no one say “My Life” because I have zero interest in reading it.) As I’ve said before, I do believe that Clinton would have acted more Presidential in such a situation. I also think he would have been more curious as to what was going on, wanting to know asap who what why when where and how. I believe he would have left the room in a timely manner and in such a way that wouldn’t have upset the childern or anyone else in the room. > [@Liberal](#): > > It really isn’t at all clear that even Bush himself should have exited quickly. Do not overlook Shaolinrabbit’s excellent point that, given Secret Service procedures, there was likely no safer place on earth that day than the elementary school where he was. Shaolinrabbit’s post was a good one, but I’ve already said I changed my mind about the school being evacuated. I haven’t changed my mind about his inaction. You think I’m unreasonable. I don’t think I am, because I think how he acted was a symptom of who the man is and his leadership abilities. We’ll just have to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432/96 "2004-07-12T11:23:05Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > What Desmostylus said. Whoops! Several posts happened while I was writing. I meant this: > [@](#): > > Desmostylus: I think you’re missing the point of a lot of this thread. Using hindsight, George did manufacture what he believed to be certain definitive “take charge” measures. And he told people what those definitive “take charge” measures were. And George’s story was revealed to be a childish lie. Not the “fuck you.” ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432/97 "2004-07-12T11:29:42Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Not the fuck you. Thank you for clearing that up. > [@](#): > > Ugh. I am NOT a Clinton supporter, though not for the same reasons as the right-wing. I never said you were. I said that some knees might jerk, but I did not say yours would. > [@](#): > > You assume that I cut Clinton slack. It’s always the little words that get overlooked. That assertion began with “If…”. And frankly, the only things I hold against Clinton are his breach of contract with Hillary and his contempt of court. As I repeatedly have said, I always expect lies out of career politicians. > [@](#): > > We’ll just have to disagree. That’s fine. I respect your opinion so long as you understand that I do not find it compelling and that I prefer to condemn Bush for his rape of our civil liberties. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432/98 "2004-07-12T11:43:05Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > It’s always the little words that get overlooked. That assertion began with “If…”. You said “If **you** are willing to cut Clinton slack for his extended deer in the headlights PR disaster, can **you** not at the very least cut Bush a bit of slack” so I assumed you were talking directly to me and asking me. I never cut Clinton any slack, and I’m not willing to cut Bush any slack. > [@Liberal](#): > > That’s fine. I respect your opinion so long as you understand that I do not find it compelling and that I prefer to condemn Bush for his rape of our civil liberties. Well, of course. That too. Sarasota is only one of several dozen reasons why I hate Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432/99 "2004-07-12T11:49:28Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > I never cut Clinton any slack, and I’m not willing to cut Bush any slack. Then we are practically soulmates! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432/100 "2004-07-12T11:59:45Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Then we are practically soulmates! 🙂 I wouldn’t get the Vaseline out just yet. I still think you’re weird. 😛 Oh, and the thought of a Libertarian government squicks me even worse than Bush being crowned Supreme Ruler for life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-interesting-day-indeed-bush-on-the-morning-of-9-11/254432.md?page=6)