# An M1A2 Abrams tank in World War 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 20, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713 "2012-06-20T03:05:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713/61 "2012-06-20T22:05:07Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Nope. No on-board air-supply. At least not when I was in, and I haven’t heard of any SCBAs being added as crew equipment on any routine basis. > > The NBC system just takes bleed-air off of the turbine (post-combustion), filters and chills it to breathable temp, and rams it into the crew compartment at pressure. > > But if the tank is sufficiently engulfed in flames, even the turbine engine will crap out on you (it needs air at even a greater rate than the crew). Huh. Ignorance fought. I had always assumed they’d include bottled oxygen as a backup. Does that mean the NBC system stops working if the turbine fails? ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713/62 "2012-06-20T22:32:09Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > For how long? [This](http://www.centcom.mil/news/marine-tanks-prepare-for-their-first-missions-in-afghanistan) CO of a Marine tank company in Afghanistan said “They require a tremendous amount of maintenance,” Hughes said. “If you go on a four or five-hour patrol to support the men on the ground, you will have four or five hours of maintenance when you get back just to keep the tanks in the fight.” > > I’m sure a fresh tank with no support can last a while but is it going to last for the 10 months it took the allies to go from Normandy to Berlin? I can’t conceive of a 1:1 ops/maint ratio. It’s beyond ludicrous, even for a desert (high dust) environment. We ran ours for 6 months in Saudia Arabia/Iraq with the routine crew maintenance dictated by the manual, with the previously mentioned 95+% OR rate. Only if their deployment coincided with a Q-cycle maintenance program can I even begin to believe a 1:1 ops/maint ratio, and that would only be for the day or so per tank it would take to complete the Q-cycle. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713/63 "2012-06-20T22:37:09Z")
Could the additional equipment packages being used for urban operations in Iraq/Afghanistan make the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713/64 "2012-06-20T22:43:37Z")
[ol] [li]Paint the tank up like a Panzer.[/li][li]Drive on the Autobahn as much as possible[/li][li]Heil **Opal** [/li][li]Disconnect the Abrams speed governor.[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713/65 "2012-06-20T22:44:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Could the additional equipment packages being used for urban operations in Iraq/Afghanistan make the difference? Possibly. Then again, the Marines could also be working with much older equipment that needs that extra TLC to keep them up-and-running. But short of battle damage, it doesn’t take 4-5 hours to do a pre-op, daily, and post-op PM check on an Abrams engine, transmission, and drivetrain. Unless that Captain was factoring in weapons maintenance time (cleaning dust out of machineguns keeps them happy), even adding routine turret maintenance won’t account for 4-5 hours. Even adding in “extra special” attention being paid to the engine air intake and filtration doesn’t add up to that much maintenance. Color me dubious until more information is brought to light. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713/66 "2012-06-20T22:54:34Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > 1. Drive on the Autobahn as much as possible I doubt that the 1944 paving of the Autobahn could support the weight of an M1 tank. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713/67 "2012-06-20T22:58:28Z")
It’s what they were designed for: moving military equipment around the country. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713/68 "2012-06-20T23:04:30Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Disconnect the Abrams speed governor. Bad idea if you’re low on spare parts. That governor exists to make the tracks and transmission last longer. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713/69 "2012-06-20T23:11:49Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > I doubt that the 1944 paving of the Autobahn could support the weight of an M1 tank. In Germany, we used to run up-and-down a ~20km chunk of old, disuded/never opened autobahn (called “The Ghost Autobahn”) in our Abrams with no problem. It was being built right at the end of WWII, but discontinued with the fall of the Third Reich. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713/70 "2012-06-20T23:13:34Z")
ET, not sure if you saw this: > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Huh. Ignorance fought. I had always assumed they’d include bottled oxygen as a backup. > > Does [running the system off the turbine] that mean the NBC system stops working if the turbine fails? ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713/71 "2012-06-20T23:27:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > ET, not sure if you saw this: > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Does that mean the NBC system stops working if the turbine fails? I did miss it. Sorry Only the “Overpressure” System. There was a regular filtered system backup that could handle most chemical agents, but not nuclear or biological agents. With the overpressure NBC system, we technically didn’t have to mask up or wear chemical protective clothing inside the turret, but we had the chem. protection suits close to hand inside the crew compartment anyway. And we _always_ had our gas masks strapped to our sides; it was the closest I came to sleeping on a pillow for 6 months. We were intially very afraid that Saddam would be crazy enough to use chemical agents against us, but for me at least, that faded over time. By the time the ground war actually kicked off, I personally wasn’t very worried about it at all. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713/72 "2012-06-20T23:40:15Z")
Wow, crazy. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713/73 "2012-06-21T02:36:31Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > BTW, what would you call this tank? The man it’s named after didn’t yet merit the honor in June '44. Well, since Grant, Lee, Sherman and Sheridan were honored by having tanks named after them, I’d say it undoubtedly has to be a Thomas. > **[George Henry Thomas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._Thomas)** > > George Henry Thomas (July 31, 1816 – March 28, 1870) was an American general in the Union Army during the American Civil War and one of the principal commanders in the Western Theater. > Thomas served in the Mexican–American War, and despite being a Virginian whose home state would join the Confederate States of America during the Civil War, he was a Southern Unionist who chose to remain in the U.S. Army. Thomas won one of the first Union victories in the war, at Mill Springs in Kentucky, and se... ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713/74 "2012-06-21T04:42:44Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > I can’t conceive of a 1:1 ops/maint ratio. It’s beyond ludicrous, even for a desert (high dust) environment. We ran ours for 6 months in Saudia Arabia/Iraq with the routine crew maintenance dictated by the manual, with the previously mentioned 95+% OR rate. You’re the first tanker I’ve ever seen that didn’t complain about [maintenance](http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/army-security-forces/abrams-tank-drivers-9136/). I thought they were trained to bitch about it. 🙂 A 95% OR rate means your unit had 95% of the vehicles operational on average, but there were breakdowns, right? The OP’s scenario is different, with a lone Abrams in battle in rough terrain with zero support, zero spares, fighting 750 miles from Normandy to Berlin. The track pads and bushings alone probably won’t last long enough to get it there unless it drives on a smooth road the entire way. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713/75 "2012-06-21T12:04:58Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > You’re the first tanker I’ve ever seen that didn’t complain about [maintenance](http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/army-security-forces/abrams-tank-drivers-9136/). I thought they were trained to bitch about it. Maintenance sucks. None of it is easy on a tank. But a lot of the break downs can be prevented with proper maintenance. Not all of course and I’m talking about the mechanical parts not the electronics. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713/76 "2012-06-21T16:44:28Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > :dubious: I’m calling BS. My unit of M1IP and M1A1 Abrams maintained an OR Rate of 95%+ from Oct 90 through Jun 91, including an end-run around VII Corps after the Hail Mary. We were in near-constant movement for 3 days. > > Abrams maintenance isn’t that damned hard; just keep the engine topped up with turbine engine oil, keep the tranny topped Technical question about the tranny – is it difficult to persuade him/her to drink that much? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713/77 "2012-06-21T18:12:23Z")
It’s the Army. They have guns. They can be very persuasive. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713/78 "2012-06-21T19:10:37Z")
Don’t shoot, don’t tell. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713/79 "2012-06-21T21:42:23Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > You’re the first tanker I’ve ever seen that didn’t complain about [maintenance](http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/army-security-forces/abrams-tank-drivers-9136/). I thought they were trained to bitch about it. 🙂 > > A 95% OR rate means your unit had 95% of the vehicles operational on average, but there were breakdowns, right? We had one of our original M1IPs catch onfire as soon as we hit deep desert, and it wasn’t something the crew could have really prevented; an in-line fuel filter broke apart right over the turbine, dumping fuel right on a hot engine. Another of our new M1A1’s wa slossed due to water damage when the hole/fighting osition the Engineers dug for us didn’t drain during a severe rain storm. Again, not crew fault. And we had one that just broke down on our end-run around VII Corps on 26 or 27 Feb 91. I don’t recall what the problem was, but the mechanics and crew had her back up-and-running in an hour or so, and they caught back up with us atthe next fuel point. And we didn’t bitch about maintenance; the modern cavalry may not ride horse, but the tradition of paying particular attention to your “mount” (vehicle) was still pretty deeply ingrained. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713/80 "2012-06-21T23:28:48Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Well, since Grant, Lee, Sherman and Sheridan were honored by having tanks named after them, I’d say it undoubtedly has to be a Thomas. > > [George Henry Thomas - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._Thomas) That’s a good choice. But it might be fun to tell Patton that it was going to be called the Monty. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-m1a2-abrams-tank-in-world-war-2/625713.md?page=5)