# An Obvious Question About The Song 'You're So Vain' **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 13, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065 "2017-01-13T20:38:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/21 "2017-01-15T03:38:05Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Well, that’s the way I’ve always heard it should be. I want to marry you. We’ll marry. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/22 "2017-01-15T07:01:56Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Swaggering I think. A manly, swaggering, forceful walk. > > Gavotte for the rhyme, I would imagine. She just meant dance. Yes, for the rhyme. As gavotte is so obscure Carly Simon must have worked her way through a great number of more well-known dances before she got to one with a worthwhile rhyme. I expect after the Chicken and the Mashed Potato she just gave up. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/23 "2017-01-15T12:17:52Z")
If she’d said “You just waltzed in”, I wouldn’t have taken it to mean that he was actually dancing. And it wasn’t like she invented the phrase. I see a reference to the phrase “gavotting about” from 1935. ---
**Author:** ![Chicken\_Fingers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Chicken\_Fingers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicken_Fingers)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/24 "2017-01-15T15:01:56Z")
Funny, all the yankees I knew thought she was singing “cavort.” Which reminds me of a mysterious part of the doe-a-dear song—“Tea, a drink with German bread.” ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/25 "2017-01-15T16:04:41Z")
> [@Chicken\_Fingers](#): > > Which reminds me of a mysterious part of the doe-a-dear song—“Tea, a drink with German bread.” That’s what I always thought they were singing… ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/26 "2017-01-15T21:44:05Z")
Gavotting … [like a boss.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZGcW2JX7rk) ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_John_Marcej)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/27 "2017-01-15T22:11:18Z")
Hmmm… and all this time I thought she was saying “And watched yourself **garotte** ”😛 ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/28 "2017-01-16T03:30:21Z")
I had some dreams, they were clowns in my coffee . . . ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/29 "2017-01-16T03:51:47Z")
> [@Chicken\_Fingers](#): > > Funny, all the yankees I knew thought she was singing “cavort.” > > Which reminds me of a mysterious part of the doe-a-dear song—“Tea, a drink with German bread.” A drink with jam and bread is what I heard. edit: I guess you were maybe joking. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/30 "2017-01-16T04:02:16Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I had some dreams, they were clowns in my coffee . . . You had me for a minute. It’s clouds. I think I used to hear clowns too. Made as much sense as anything else though. Not sure clouds is any better really. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/31 "2017-01-16T04:56:41Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > You had me for a minute. It’s clouds. I think I used to hear clowns too. Made as much sense as anything else though. Not sure clouds is any better really. Cream when poured into coffee can look like clouds…sorta? Kinda? ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/32 "2017-01-16T05:03:09Z")
When I hear “clouds in my coffee” I think of the little wisps of steam that appear on the coffee and vanish almost instantly. Her dreams are as ephemeral as the clouds [on] her coffee. No idea what she actually meant, but that’s the most sense I can shoehorn into that lyric. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/33 "2017-01-16T06:11:06Z")
I was six years old when this song came out, and maybe 8 years old when I actually heard it for the first time. I was pretty sure the song wasn’t about me. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/34 "2017-01-16T07:53:40Z")
Heck, I’ve been a Carly Simon fan for a long time and I’m somewhat familiar with her music. I think she used the word “gavotte” because of its obscurity. She’s a rather eloquent lyricist and likes to write songs that are somewhat different both lyrically and musically. ---
**Author:** ![TYphoonSignal8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@TYphoonSignal8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TYphoonSignal8)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/35 "2017-01-16T08:03:09Z")
I always thought it was “And you watched yourself go by”. There you go. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/36 "2017-01-16T16:52:05Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > I was six years old when this song came out, and maybe 8 years old when I actually heard it for the first time. > > I was pretty sure the song wasn’t about me. The thing is, she provides some pretty specific clues. If some real guy did indeed do all of those things, owns a Learjet and a horse, flew into a solar eclipse, he at least knows it’s about him for sure. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/37 "2017-01-16T17:04:30Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > The thing is, she provides some pretty specific clues. If some real guy did indeed do all of those things, owns a Learjet and a horse, flew into a solar eclipse, he at least knows it’s about him for sure. IIRC, isn’t her explanation that it’s a composite? So as soon as the guy who heard that bit concluded that it’s about him, he would’ve scratched his head and tried in vain to recall the time he used that ‘such a pretty pair’ line on her – and the guy who _did_ recall using that line on her, he’d already (a) concluded that it was _him,_ and (b) struggled to recall when he’d worn an apricot scarf to a party. (And the guy who rocked that scarf – yeah, he’d already concluded it was _him,_ and then said to himself _hang on; when did I say “pretty pair” to her?_) ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/38 "2017-01-16T17:49:17Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Cream when poured into coffee can look like clouds…sorta? Kinda? That’s what thought. Then you stir your coffee and the clouds become like an overcast sky. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/39 "2017-01-16T18:25:49Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > When I hear “clouds in my coffee” I think of the little wisps of steam that appear on the coffee and vanish almost instantly. Her dreams are as ephemeral as the clouds [on] her coffee. > > No idea what she actually meant, but that’s the most sense I can shoehorn into that lyric. I think she was referring to an even more ephemeral item than that. > **[You're So Vain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You're_So_Vain#cite_note-30)** > > "You're So Vain" is a song by the American singer-songwriter Carly Simon, released as a single in November 1972. The lyrics describe a self-absorbed lover. The subject's identity has long been a matter of speculation. Simon said the song refers to three men, one of whom she has named publicly: the actor Warren Beatty. The bass guitar intro was played by Klaus Voormann. The strings were arranged by Simon and orchestrated by Paul Buckmaster. > In early 1973, "You're So Vain" reached No. 1 in the U... > [@](#): > > Simon said the line “clouds in my coffee” came “from an airplane flight that I took with Billy Mernit, who was my friend and piano player at the time. As I got my coffee, there were clouds outside the window of the airplane and you could see the reflection in the cup of coffee. Billy said to me, ‘Look at the clouds in your coffee’.”[30] So it was more than just a vanishing thing, it was referring to something that was just a reflexion, less tangible than a dream. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/40 "2017-01-16T18:47:04Z")
She did an impressive job shoehorning “strategically” into that line. Not an easy word to fit to any meter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065.md?page=3)