# An Obvious Question About The Song 'You're So Vain' **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 13, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065 "2017-01-13T20:38:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/41 "2017-01-16T20:20:38Z")
> [@AncientHumanoid](#): > > It’s a metapun. I haven’t got time for the pun. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/42 "2017-01-17T01:56:56Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > You had me for a minute. It’s clouds. I think I used to hear clowns too. Made as much sense as anything else though. Not sure clouds is any better really. I always assumed that the occasional slow teardrop rolled into the coffee cup (at least in her dream) and caused a cloudy spot. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/43 "2017-01-17T03:05:42Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I think she was referring to an even more ephemeral item than that. > > [You're So Vain - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You're_So_Vain#cite_note-30) > So it was more than just a vanishing thing, it was referring to something that was just a reflexion, less tangible than a dream. So she looked at clouds from both sides now? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/44 "2017-01-17T03:17:23Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > So she looked at clouds from both sides now? That was Judy Collins. Or Joni Mitchell. Take your pick. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/45 "2017-01-17T04:11:59Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > IIRC, isn’t her explanation that it’s a composite? So as soon as the guy who heard that bit concluded that it’s about him, he would’ve scratched his head and tried in vain to recall the time he used that ‘such a pretty pair’ line on her – and the guy who _did_ recall using that line on her, he’d already (a) concluded that it was _him,_ and (b) struggled to recall when he’d worn an apricot scarf to a party. > > (And the guy who rocked that scarf – yeah, he’d already concluded it was _him,_ and then said to himself _hang on; when did I say “pretty pair” to her?_) I thought she finally came out and told us what we all knew already, that it was Warren Beatty. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/46 "2017-01-17T09:40:33Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > I thought she finally came out and told us what we all knew already, that it was Warren Beatty. She revealed that the second verse was about Beatty, but the song is not exclusively about him. It also refers to two other men. > [@](#): > > In November 2015, Simon, promoting her about-to-be-published memoir, said, “I have confirmed that the second verse is Warren (Beatty),” and added that while “Warren thinks the whole thing is about him,” he is the subject of that verse only, with the remainder of the song referring to two other, still-unnamed men. > **[You're So Vain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_So_Vain#Subject_of_the_song)** > > "You're So Vain" is a song by the American singer-songwriter Carly Simon, released as a single in November 1972. The lyrics describe a self-absorbed lover. The subject's identity has long been a matter of speculation. Simon said the song refers to three men, one of whom she has named publicly: the actor Warren Beatty. The bass guitar intro was played by Klaus Voormann. The strings were arranged by Simon and orchestrated by Paul Buckmaster. > In early 1973, "You're So Vain" reached No. 1 in the U... ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/47 "2017-01-17T14:24:35Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > She revealed that the second verse was about Beatty, but the song is not exclusively about him. It also refers to two other men. > > [You're So Vain - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_So_Vain#Subject_of_the_song) Well that’s some Mandela-Effect level shit there! ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/48 "2017-01-17T14:43:32Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > IIRC, isn’t her explanation that it’s a composite? So as soon as the guy who heard that bit concluded that it’s about him, he would’ve scratched his head and tried in vain to recall the time he used that ‘such a pretty pair’ line on her – and the guy who _did_ recall using that line on her, he’d already (a) concluded that it was _him,_ and (b) struggled to recall when he’d worn an apricot scarf to a party. > > (And the guy who rocked that scarf – yeah, he’d already concluded it was _him,_ and then said to himself _hang on; when did I say “pretty pair” to her?_) This, boys and girls, is why you should never date a song writer. When you inevitably break up you’re going to find yourself in a song, angry, bitter, or sad, depending on how the break up went. Same for poets but nobody reads them. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/49 "2017-01-17T14:46:56Z")
What does it say about her that she kept either dating or hanging out with this kind of guy? ---
**Author:** ![Spit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Spit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spit)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/50 "2017-01-17T16:04:06Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I think she was referring to an even more ephemeral item than that. > > [You're So Vain - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You're_So_Vain#cite_note-30) > So it was more than just a vanishing thing, it was referring to something that was just a reflexion, less tangible than a dream. Good Lord- I thought it meant when you pour in the cream and it makes clouds for a second until you stir. The feelings were there for a moment, then disappeared. > [@cochrane](#): > > She revealed that the second verse was about Beatty, but the song is not exclusively about him. It also refers to two other men. > > [You're So Vain - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_So_Vain#Subject_of_the_song) On one of her later albums, she whispered the word “David” backwards, supposedly as a clue. I think it is a composite. The three verses being three different men makes the chorus sensible, since the song is not about any one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/51 "2017-01-17T20:58:34Z")
[QUOTE=The Brain] Hurry, Pinky! If we don’t get to Carly Simon’s house by six, we’ll never know if that song was about me! [/QUOTE] [link](https://youtu.be/n1rtVYv7ljI?t=1m6s) ---
**Author:** ![Spit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Spit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spit)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/52 "2017-01-26T04:31:48Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6UAYGxiRwU&app=desktop](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6UAYGxiRwU&app=desktop) > > I hear it quite clearly. I’ve always heard it that way. I heard it the grocery store tonight, and I believe she says “Up to Saratoga, where your horse naturally won”. I did not here an “Up” before Nova Scotia being mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/53 "2017-01-26T05:06:13Z")
> [@Spit](#): > > I heard it the grocery store tonight, and I believe she says “Up to Saratoga, where your horse naturally won”. I did not here an “Up” before Nova Scotia being mentioned. You can hear it much better in the YouTube clip than you can over grocery store speakers. Anyway, it fits the meter better with the word “up” than without it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/54 "2017-01-26T05:25:21Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > You can hear it much better in the YouTube clip than you can over grocery store speakers. Anyway, it fits the meter better with the word “up” than without it. Your link seems to be down, but in [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j13oJajXx0M&list=PLYDj_9-W1t3dZsJKnhHgbUeQyK4_oZ2Ub) I definitely hear both “ups,” as well as in the live version I was able to find. It sounds pretty clear to me. ---
**Author:** ![Spit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Spit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spit)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/55 "2017-01-26T16:00:49Z")
I’m in the sticks, with major bandwidth restrictions. I will kick on the 70’s station, and report back in twenty minutes. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/56 "2017-01-28T04:36:27Z")
As a young kid in the late 50’s, I often listened to my father’s **My Fair Lady** record album of the Broadway show (Julie Andrews), and remember well the song _Ascot Gavotte_. Here’s the scene from the [1964 movie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNgsAcSJdAg) (Audrey Hepburn lip synching Marni Nixon) which I always visualized when I heard the lyric in _You’re So Vain_. I wouldn’t be surprised, her being from a wealthy, cultured NYC family, if Ms. Simon actually saw it on Broadway, which must have been wonderful. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065/57 "2017-01-28T05:33:27Z")
You misspelled _“loverly”_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-obvious-question-about-the-song-youre-so-vain/777065.md?page=2)