My Lord, even if that were true, how do you get from that to, ‘if I had super powers I would kill them all.’???
:smack:
:dubious:
If you think they’re evil, why wouldn’t you kill them?
I was thinking about addressing 2gigch1’s question about myself, and almost my first thought was something similar to what Panda77 wrote.
I was raised Irish Catholic and went to Catholic school through 8th grade, the last 3 of them more or less under protest. I wanted to go to public school – well, not particularly, but I knew I didn’t want to stay in Catholic school.
I knew I was an atheist at age 12. But looking back on it (from 40 years later) I’m not sure how much I ever believed in any of it. I always thought of it as going through the motions to stay out of trouble. It was all inexplicable, but at that age so is most of the stuff adults force kids to do. The priests and nuns weren’t interested in intellectual discussion of why all the religious rituals needed to be followed or what justified them. They were interested in making sure we knew the correct thing to do or say during our parts of the rituals. Kind of like memorizing the multiplication tables, but a lot less useful. 
To them. all the religious stuff was as real as gravity, and like gravity couldn’t really be doubted. But my doubts grew.
Anyway, the question made me think about how things might be different if I had grown up without any religious tradition. And I ultimately decided it’s an impossible to answer. It’s almost the same question as what kind of person I would be if I was given up for adoption and raised by some other family. Too many imponderables.
The question is why would you point out how evil they are and how much you want to murder them in a light-hearted thread about superhero powers.
Yes, I know Der Trihs hates religion. Yes, I know he also hates the US foreign policy, especially the Iraq occupation. That’s his thing. But you can’t have a discussion with him unless you want to talk about historical Christian atrocities, or make comparisons between Nazis and Republicans. The guy’s a walking caricature.
And why not? Do you think I’m the first to wish I could do that to a conquering army? Millions of people have wished that.
Of course, the unspoken difference is “But..but they’re Americans!!” Somehow, it’s different when they decide to go on a campaign of conquest and slaughter.
I’ve met quite a number in my day. I can think of several famous examples, too. Alistair McGrath, for example. Also Dr. Bernard Nathanson, formerly one of the stalwarts of NARAL. (He was still an atheist when he turned pro-life, but years later, he did convert to Catholicism.) Alexander Solzhenitsyn. Lee Strobel. And so forth.
Better to kill the people that sent the poor bastards there. Not to name any names, of course.
Youre kind of proving my point.
If I recall correctly ITR Champion has posted about being an atheist who got religion. Frequently.
I say this as someone who thinks that a lot of what ITR Champion posts about religion is, shall we say, not well-considered, but if you want a personal account of a journey from atheism to faith he’s your man. Or woman, I can’t remember now.
Apparently the fact that he is easily the single long-term poster with the highest hate-to-content ratio of his posts on the site.
Like you say, it is easy to dismiss Der Trihs. If it were just him ranting away about how evil Christians and Republicans and pro-lifers and Americans in general and everyone else is, that would be one thing. What creeps me out is the number of other folks who say he is being too blunt or obvious, but they basically agree with him. That’s - well, not frightening, but distasteful. Sitting around fondling your hatred for everyone and everything as he does, and getting praise for it.
Ick.
Regards,
Shodan
I’m getting tired of trying to keep y’all on topic.
If you want to talk about whether or not all the American soldiers wherever should be killed, take it to GD.
If you want to talk about what level of civility is appropriate in religious debates, take it to GD.
If you want to bash on Der Shirt, take it to the Pit.
I’m probably missing a few tangents, but you get the idea.
I’m thinking very seriously of locking this puppy – if anyone has anything to say that’s on topic, do so now while it’s still open.
Thanks,
twickster, MPSIMS moderator
That’s a poor - one might suspect deliberately so - characterization of the arguments.
I may agree with Der Trihs in saying that religion wields too heavy an influence in American society without subscribing to the view that all religious people are morons who should be sterilized*, just as I can have opposed the Iraq War without believing that all US soldiers in Iraq should have been killed. I’m not “bashing” him when I say that the extent of his views and the tone in which he expresses them often make me uncomfortable even when I support the underlying point.
Which is why I was surprised when the OP revealed that this approach to countering religion, frequently conducted in what I would consider an extremist manner, was nonetheless successful. I would not have guessed that it could ever be. Chacun a son gout and all that.
- I can’t remember if he actually said this but it’s just an example to make the point.
I guess a lot of that was my fault. I knew it was a bad idea to click the thread, but I did it anyway. I apologize.
If Der Trihs had ever expressed any kind of nuance in his anti-religious, anti-American, anti-pretty much everything views, you might have a point.
What I’m talking about it people who say they disagree with only the way he expresses his views. Not the views themselves. And since the views themselves are nearly always “Christians/American/Republicans/pro-lifers/everyone should die” or the equivalent, it isn’t quite fair to expect everyone to understand where the line is drawn.
It would be like me saying “Fred Phelps goes too far, but I basically like the guy” and expecting everyone to know that I just believe gay marriage should be a matter for the states to decide.
Regards,
Shodan
He’s one of my favorite posters. I think he’s smart and funny and I don’t have to agree with everything he says. He helps keep things interesting around here.
I am happy to see this newcrasher thank you for sharing
IMHO talking to people about religion is pointless because it’s so subjective. First, talk to yourself. If you find you have faith then talk to God. If not, continue talking to yourself.
Then god talks back to you says to go on a crusade to the holy land, subjugate women, deny rights to certain groups, become a suicide bomber, invade Iraq, or burn witches.
People NEED to talk about religion. I thought any number of the above things were ok until my mind was freed.
The crusades were undertaken by kings using opulent displays of contrition for the salvation of their souls. Subjugation and degradation of any people at any time are stances destined to fall.
Kamikazee Iraqin witches?..
Spirituality IMHO is seeking your place in the balance of things, has nothing to do with greed for money and/or power.
I understand that you feel you’ve taken a weight off your shoulders, been lightened and freed. The next step, IMHO, is enlightenment; the search for where to settle.
But then I could be full of shit.
Way to stereotype. :rolleyes: