# An Open Letter to Paul Krugman **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 12, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105 "2011-09-12T22:52:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/1 "2011-09-12T22:52:03Z")
In response to this: [http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/11/the-years-of-shame/](http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/11/the-years-of-shame/) It’s kind of hard to find the words on this one. This one just hurts me. It hurts me in ways that I didn’t think some asshole pundit was capable of hurting me. I think things were “subdued” yesterday because that is the appropriate way to commemorate a horrible tragedy. I think things were subdued because most people realized that it was not a moment for partisan politics. Your article is pari-passu with the practices of the Westboro Baptist Church who like to come out to the funerals of slain servicemen and protest that God hates fags and such. Rhetorically, it is difficult to get lower than such actions. When you shit on a funeral you harm the people who are there to heal. I don’t know of anybody else who feels the shame you seem to feel and articulate. I do know that for somebody who has won the nobel prize you certainly seem to have a simplistic view of things. I don’t think your nobel prize or your fame has anything to do with any particular skill or expertise in your field, but rather with your consistent willingness to sell your credentials in service of your politics. I think you are a disgusting human being who has just left the reservation in terms of what it means to be a participant in society. You are a cynical little hack. To me, the worst thing about this is that if you wish to say something like you just said, you should take ownership of it. Writing something like what you wrote and then locking the comments “for obvious reasons” is about as mature as lighting a turd on fire, ringing somebody’s doorbell and running away. The years of shame are yours. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/2 "2011-09-12T23:18:51Z")
I’m not seeing the reason for outrage. What part of “hi-jacking 9/11 for their own purposes” seems incorrect to you? Giuliani, for instance, is still cashing in on it. Bush used it as a springboard to start an unnecessary war and people are still dying because of it. Krugman’s Nobel is for economics. This commentary is opinion, and is on the mark, as far as I’m concerned. Ordinary Americans saw their mutual grief hi-jacked by a bunch of self-serving politicians who used it to stoke hatred and bitterness. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/3 "2011-09-12T23:29:41Z")
I agree with him, except for the “subdued” part. First off, subdued is good…that’s the way these things should be. And secondly, they haven’t been subdued. They have been quite up all in your face. Still can’t tune into a channel and not hear about 9/11. I haven’t see any collective embarrassment, even though I agree that shame taints the whole thing. The things conservatives get worked up about…I’ll never understand. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/4 "2011-09-12T23:52:13Z")
For anyone who hasn’t bothered clicking on the link, the Krugman column is very short and titled, The Years of Shame. He wonders if the commemorations seem strangely subdued to anyone other than him. He says that 9/11 should have unified America, but that instead politicians turned it into a “wedge issue” and used it to launch self-serving wars and political campaigns.He names Bush, Giuliani, and Bernie Kerik. He condemns the media pundits for their complicity His summation is: _The memory of 9/11 has been irrevocably poisoned; it has become an occasion for shame. And in its heart, the nation knows it._ I think it’s a valid viewpoint. Comparing it to the funeral picketing of the Westboro Baptist Church is off the mark. It isn’t irrational blathering, it’s germane to the occasion. If Krugman had virulently condemned the irredeemable evil of the Amerikan Empire, the OP might have a worthy point. He doesn’t have a worthy point. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/5 "2011-09-13T00:11:55Z")
Are you claiming, **Scylla** , that 9/11 wasn’t turned into a wedge issue? That some people didn’t regularly bring up 9/11 for cynical self-aggrandizement or self-promotion, or co-opt 9/11 imagery for political ads and campaigns? I agree with Krugman on this one, and disagree with **Scylla**. No real surprise there. ---
**Author:** ![Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crown_Prince_of_Irony)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/6 "2011-09-13T00:14:54Z")
I’m right there with Krugman - I’m glad someone said it, especially someone so widely read. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/7 "2011-09-13T00:16:44Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I’m not seeing the reason for outrage. What part of “hi-jacking 9/11 for their own purposes” seems incorrect to you? Giuliani, for instance, is still cashing in on it. Bush used it as a springboard to start an unnecessary war and people are still dying because of it. Krugman’s Nobel is for economics. This commentary is opinion, and is on the mark, as far as I’m concerned. Ordinary Americans saw their mutual grief hi-jacked by a bunch of self-serving politicians who used it to stoke hatred and bitterness. I don’t really see it that way, and I tend to think that people that do are displaying a marker for rabid partisanship and simplistic worldviews. Nevertheless, you’ve completely bypassed my point. You are making the same argument that a Westboro Baptist would no doubt make to defend his actions. That is, they would likely say that “God does hate fags, and God is punishing America for being permissive to homosexuality, and therefore what we are doing is justified, even necessary.” Of course, the funny thing is that pretty much everybody thinks they are right, and that being right justifies all kinds of atrocious behavior. It doesn’t. Life is more complex than Krugman suggests. If you thought somebody was an alcoholic, that’s no excuse to stand up at his funeral and shout about what a rotten sonovabitch the alky was. The 10 year anniversary of 9/11 is not really an appropriate occasion to loudly remind everybody what a bunch of assholes you think Bush, Giuliani, Neocons an Republicans are. It’s a little bigger than that. If you don’t get that than I think you belong right there, next to Fred Phelps, holding up hate signs at funerals. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/8 "2011-09-13T00:20:05Z")
You _still_ haven’t come to grips with how totally suckered you were with your buying into the story about how we had to invade Iraq, have you? Or how eager you were to get so many other people killed while you were too damn much of a pussy to go yourself? “The Big Dog Theory”, I believe you called it. But the rest of us knew then and knew now. The people you hate are both smarter and more principled than yourself. Deal with it. Too damn bad. You were and are that big an fool and a coward. It isn’t anybody else’s fault but your own that you bought into it. Not Krugman’s, _yours_. Now grow the fuck up a little. It’s about time. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/9 "2011-09-13T00:21:02Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I’m not seeing the reason for outrage. What part of “hi-jacking 9/11 for their own purposes” seems incorrect to you? Giuliani, for instance, is still cashing in on it. Bush used it as a springboard to start an unnecessary war and people are still dying because of it. Krugman’s Nobel is for economics. This commentary is opinion, and is on the mark, as far as I’m concerned. Ordinary Americans saw their mutual grief hi-jacked by a bunch of self-serving politicians who used it to stoke hatred and bitterness. Being critical of people for using 9/11 as a wedge issue is one thing. Doing the exact thing is another. Krugman isn’t speaking for himself in the article. He’s speaking for “the nation,” and that’s the exact same thing the people he is shaming have attempted to do. It’s certainly not as bad as Westboro batshit, but to me it’s just as bad as everything Giuliani has done with it. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/10 "2011-09-13T00:24:20Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I don’t really see it that way, and I tend to think that people that do are displaying a marker for rabid partisanship and simplistic worldviews. > > Nevertheless, you’ve completely bypassed my point. > > You are making the same argument that a Westboro Baptist would no doubt make to defend his actions. That is, they would likely say that “God does hate fags, and God is punishing America for being permissive to homosexuality, and therefore what we are doing is justified, even necessary.” > > Of course, the funny thing is that pretty much everybody thinks they are right, and that being right justifies all kinds of atrocious behavior. > > It doesn’t. Life is more complex than Krugman suggests. > > If you thought somebody was an alcoholic, that’s no excuse to stand up at his funeral and shout about what a rotten sonovabitch the alky was. > > The 10 year anniversary of 9/11 is not really an appropriate occasion to loudly remind everybody what a bunch of assholes you think Bush, Giuliani, Neocons an Republicans are. > > It’s a little bigger than that. > > If you don’t get that than I think you belong right there, next to Fred Phelps, holding up hate signs at funerals. Over-react much? I’ll admit that his timing may be a bit off, but the remarks remain on point. And for the record, I think Phelps is a dick, but it would appear that you would deny him his right to free speech, which makes you a bigger dick by far. ---
**Author:** ![Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crown_Prince_of_Irony)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/11 "2011-09-13T00:30:57Z")
I can understand why someone would be upset at Krugman’s remarks - 9/11 is still a raw point for many (including me). However, like Krugman, I’ve also found it deeply disgraceful that such a tragedy could have been so cynically co-opted to further certain agendas. And also that we, the American people, so willingly gave up certain hard-fought freedoms and fundamental rights - like due process, and protection against unlawful search and siezure - in exchange for a false sense of security. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/12 "2011-09-13T00:33:40Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > If you thought somebody was an alcoholic, that’s no excuse to stand up at his funeral and shout about what a rotten sonovabitch the alky was. The vital difference is that Krugman is not talking about the victims of September 11th. This is more like going to the funeral of an alcoholic and criticizing the guy who set up a cash bar. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/13 "2011-09-13T00:34:24Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Over-react much? I’ll admit that his timing may be a bit off, but the remarks remain on point. And for the record, I think Phelps is a dick, but it would appear that you would deny him his right to free speech, which makes you a bigger dick by far. Not me. He can say it. I can condemn him for saying it. Freedom speech does not mean freedom from responsibility for what you say. Ironic that you mention it because the **only** person in this issue who wants to deny free speech is Krugman. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/14 "2011-09-13T00:36:29Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Ironic that you mention it because the **only** person in this issue who wants to deny free speech is Krugman. Did I miss that part of the article? Seemed to me he was denying freedom of speech about as much as you have. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/15 "2011-09-13T00:39:56Z")
The problem with what Krugman is saying is that it’s not being said enough. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/16 "2011-09-13T00:39:57Z")
It’s just Krugman being Krugman, akin to pitting a duck for quacking. He’s merely lamenting the fact the American public didn’t take his advice, hold hands, sing Kumbaya and unify around his call [10 years earlier](http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/14/opinion/reckonings-after-the-horror.html) to adopt “a Keynesian response to economic slowdown and refuse to accept another round of irresponsible long-term tax cuts”. Or maybe he’s still pissed we haven’t nationalized critical industries and joined the EU. Unless there at some truthers we’re supposed to take seriously, the American columnist I assumed would’ve been most likely to catch a pitting was [Tom Engelhardt](http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/09/2011910125513799497.html). > [@](#): > > …Eliminate that still-being-constructed, hubris-filled 1,776 feet of building, planned in the heyday of George W Bush and soaring into the Manhattan sky like a nyaah-nyaah invitation to future terrorists. Dismantle the other three office towers being built there as part of an $11bn government-sponsored construction programme. Let’s get rid of it all. If we had wanted a memorial to 9/11, it would have been more appropriate to leave one of the giant shards of broken tower there untouched… > > This country has become dependent on the dead of 9/11 - who have no way of defending themselves against how they have been used - as an all-purpose explanation for our own goodness and the horrors we’ve visited on others, for the many towers-worth of dead in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere whose blood is on our hands… > > The facts of 9/11 are, in this sense, simple enough. It was not a nuclear attack. It was not apocalyptic. The cloud of smoke where the towers stood was no mushroom cloud. It was not potentially civilisation-ending. It did not endanger the existence of our country - or even of New York City. Spectacular as it looked and staggering as the casualty figures were, the operation was hardly more technologically advanced than the failed attack on a single tower of the World Trade Center in 1993 by Islamists using a rented Ryder truck packed with explosives… > > And yet - another sign of where we were heading - anyone who suggested that this wasn’t war, that it was a criminal act and some sort of international police action was in order, was simply laughed (or derided or insulted) out of the American room. And so the empire prepared to strike back (just as Osama bin Laden hoped it would) in an apocalyptic, planet-wide “war” for domination that masqueraded as a war for survival… > > …On the tenth anniversary of 9/11, for an imperial power that is distinctly tattered, visibly in decline, teetering at the edge of financial disaster, and battered by never-ending wars, political paralysis, terrible economic times, disintegrating infrastructure, and weird weather, all of this should be simple and obvious. That it’s not tells us much about the kind of shock therapy we still need. > > Unfortunately, they were not the measure of the moment. As a result, the uses of 9/11 in the decade since have added up to a profile in cowardice, not courage, and if we let it be used that way in the next decade, we will go down in history as a nation of cowards… > > If September 11 was indeed a nightmare, 9/11 as a memorial and Ground Zero as a “consecrated” place has turned out to be a blank check for the American war state, funding an endless trip to hell. They have helped lead us into fields of carnage that put the dead of 9/11 to shame… ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/17 "2011-09-13T00:42:35Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Did I miss that part of the article? Seemed to me he was denying freedom of speech about as much as you have. He turned off coments for his article. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/18 "2011-09-13T00:43:10Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > It’s just Krugman being Krugman, akin to pitting a duck for quacking. He’s merely lamenting the fact the American public didn’t take his advice, hold hands, sing Kumbaya and unify around his call [10 years earlier](http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/14/opinion/reckonings-after-the-horror.html) to adopt “a Keynesian response to economic slowdown and refuse to accept another round of irresponsible long-term tax cuts”. Something more you can’t bring yourself to say: _He was right about all of that_. Unforgivable, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/19 "2011-09-13T00:51:57Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > He turned off coments for his article. That’s it? That’s denying free speech? It’s certainly a gutless move on his part, but as I can still send an email to the editor detailing what a twit Krugman is I’m going to say my free speech is still pretty much unharmed. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/20 "2011-09-13T00:56:29Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > He turned off coments for his article. You are a very silly person. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105.md?page=2)