# An Open Letter to Paul Krugman **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 12, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105 "2011-09-12T22:52:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/282 "2011-09-16T18:05:02Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Again, that’s not accurate. You’re politics can certainly differ from mine. It’s simply that if you think Krugman’s Op Ed was laudable and appropriate that you are broken. Pardon me if I’ve been ninja’d, but I had to jump in immediately upon reading that. You said that anyone who didn’t instantaneously see him as reprehensible for writing it is broken. Words to that effect. I’m going to insist that there’s quite a bit of daylight between that and thinking that what he wrote is laudable and appropriate. On preview, I see that I _have_ been ninja’d. The hell with it. I’m posting it anyway, to point out the excluded middle. And, with the exception of reminding **Scylla** that I expect better of him, I’ll leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/283 "2011-09-16T18:11:50Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > And, with the exception of reminding **Scylla** that I expect better of him, I’ll leave it at that. Oh please. All he has left to do is tell us that he’s not going to post in this thread anymore because he has “a life” and important things to do. Then come back and post some more. Then he’s hit the Trifecta, and wins the Starving Artist “debate” award. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/284 "2011-09-16T18:17:13Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > And, with the exception of reminding **Scylla** that I expect better of him, I’ll leave it at that. There was a time when i actually would have agreed with this sentiment. I recognize that **Scylla** and i have vastly different politics, and that there are plenty of areas where we’re unlikely ever to see eye-to-eye, but there was a time when even when i was arguing ferociously with him, i tended to think of him as one of those who at least would play by the basic rules of good-faith, rational argument. Sure, he slipped occasionally, but we all do, and those slips were aberrations. Unfortunately, the sort of bullshit that you pointed out has become, more and more, his standard _modus operandi_. While there was a time when i did, in fact, expect better of him, that time has passed. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/285 "2011-09-16T18:25:11Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Oh please. > > All he has left to do is tell us that he’s not going to post in this thread anymore because he has “a life” and important things to do. Then come back and post some more. > > Then he’s hit the Trifecta, and wins the Starving Artist “debate” award. You and Hentor should have a paranormal convention. He can read minds and you can see the future. Seriously, how big a loser do you have to criticize somebody on what you think they might do in the future? Even an idiot like Elvislives knows that when you construct a strawman you attribute it to the past or present. Only my wife is allowed to get angry at me or criticize me for things she thinks I will do in future. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/286 "2011-09-16T18:30:20Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Oh please. > > All he has left to do is tell us that he’s not going to post in this thread anymore because he has “a life” and important things to do. Then come back and post some more. > > Then he’s hit the Trifecta, and wins the Starving Artist “debate” award. > [@mhendo](#): > > There was a time when i actually would have agreed with this sentiment. > > I recognize that **Scylla** and i have vastly different politics, and that there are plenty of areas where we’re unlikely ever to see eye-to-eye, but there was a time when even when i was arguing ferociously with him, i tended to think of him as one of those who at least would play by the basic rules of good-faith, rational argument. Sure, he slipped occasionally, but we all do, and those slips were aberrations. > > Unfortunately, the sort of bullshit that you pointed out has become, more and more, his standard _modus operandi_. While there was a time when i did, in fact, expect better of him, that time has passed. Well, I don’t have any brief to bludgeon you guys out of your opinions on the matter; I seem to have gone a long time without catching any of **Scylla** ’s activity, so perhaps my view of him is still unduly influenced by what I read in the halcyon past. I’ll stick with it for a while longer, nonetheless. I have to admit that in the latter half of this thread, at least, he’s bearing an eerie resemblance to the late, lamented **Dio**. Especially with that reference to “The **Scylla** Show,” above. Bad **Hentor** , BAD! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/287 "2011-09-16T18:32:21Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > You and Hentor should have a paranormal convention. He can read minds and you can see the future. > > Seriously, how big a loser do you have to criticize somebody on what you think they might do in the future? > > Even an idiot like Elvislives knows that when you construct a strawman you attribute it to the past or present. > > Only my wife is allowed to get angry at me or criticize me for things she thinks I will do in future. My bad. I should have predicted that you would make an inane post that would totally miss the point that I was not predicting the future, but rather was directly insulting you by comparing you to a person whose posting/debate style is a joke. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/288 "2011-09-16T18:38:04Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Seriously, how big a loser do you have to criticize somebody on what you think they might do in the future? You mean like Condoleeza “Smoking Mushroom” Rice. Well, I always thought the Red Skullette had a brain, if no morals, but if you say she’s just a big loser it must be so. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/289 "2011-09-16T18:38:55Z")
Kaylasdad: If I’ve given confusion concerning my thesis, I apologize. Allow me to restate. I think Krugmans piece is wildly over the top and innapropriate. I think there is something wrong with somebody who does not see that regardless of their politics. This is not to say that you have to like Bush and support the war to not be broken. Or to restate another way, if Krugman’s piece resonates in your soul, Than you are a just another partisan nutjob. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/290 "2011-09-16T18:40:04Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I have to admit that in the latter half of this thread, at least, he’s bearing an eerie resemblance to the late, lamented **Dio**. I actually contemplated making exactly that comparison in my previous post. It was the first one that came to mind. In both cases, i see an obvious and steady decline in the person’s willingness to see reason and to debate in good faith. In **Dio** ’s case, i happened to agree with much of his politics; in **Scylla** ’s case i don’t. And **Dio** tended to be more abrupt and abrasive, whereas **Scylla** tends toward the hand-waving and dismissive. But the results aren’t that different. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/291 "2011-09-16T18:48:15Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > My bad. I should have predicted that you would make an inane post that would totally miss the point that I was not predicting the future, but rather was directly insulting you by comparing you to a person whose posting/debate style is a joke. O no, I got it. I just thought it was funny how poorly you did it. Saying that sometime if I did x than I might be comparable to y is really low quality as far as insults go. Hector and Elvis are like total morons because in order to insult you they have to make up a stance and pretend you think it (the mindreading.). They lack the horsepower to criticize what is actually said. Similarly, you lack the creativity to compare something I actually in order to ridicule me. Instead you have to make up something you think I might do in the future and ridicule me based on that. Ow well, at least you’re trying. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/292 "2011-09-16T18:50:00Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I have to admit that in the latter half of this thread, at least, he’s bearing an eerie resemblance to the late, lamented **Dio**. Especially with that reference to “The **Scylla** Show,” above. > > Bad **Hentor** , BAD! There was another term I used to use in reference to the pursuit of **Scylla’s** tortured logic, but I’m sparing everyone. Let’s just go with the **Scylla** Show. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/293 "2011-09-16T18:53:43Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I actually contemplated making exactly that comparison in my previous post. It was the first one that came to mind. In both cases, i see an obvious and steady decline in the person’s willingness to see reason and to debate in good faith. Wow, if there’s been a decline over time, you must be talking about the original BBS. Who was the SysOp back then? Like I said, one of my first SDMB experiences was of **Scylla** being a slippery lying disingenuous rhetorical weasel, and that was a decade ago. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/294 "2011-09-16T18:55:30Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Kaylasdad: > > If I’ve given confusion concerning my thesis, I apologize. Allow me to restate. I think Krugmans piece is wildly over the top and innapropriate. I think there is something wrong with somebody who does not see that regardless of their politics. > > This is not to say that you have to like Bush and support the war to not be broken. > > Or to restate another way, if Krugman’s piece resonates in your soul, Than you are a just another partisan nutjob. Well, it doesn’t resonate in **my** soul on account of how he opened by saying that people were subdued during the commemorations because they felt guilty about the bad things that the Bush Administration and its supporters did. That’s a bit of loopy stuff there. I won’t pretend that I don’t agree with his thesis that they _were_ in fact, bad things. Just that I don’t think feeling guilty about them was what kept people from buying fancy new hats and having cookouts on 09-11-11. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/295 "2011-09-16T18:59:33Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Wow, if there’s been a decline over time, you must be talking about the original BBS. Who was the SysOp back then? > > Like I said, one of my first SDMB experiences was of **Scylla** being a slippery lying disingenuous rhetorical weasel, and that was a decade ago. The problem is folks remember him for his non-political posts, mentally categorize him as “worthwhile poster,” then are surprised when they encounter him in a political thread. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/296 "2011-09-16T19:02:14Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Well, it doesn’t resonate in **my** soul on account of how he opened by saying that people were subdued during the commemorations because they felt guilty about the bad things that the Bush Administration and its supporters did. That’s a bit of loopy stuff there. > > I won’t pretend that I don’t agree with his thesis that they _were_ in fact, bad things. Just that I don’t think feeling guilty about them was what kept people from buying fancy new hats and having cookouts on 09-11-11. No, I was not aiming at people who believe as you do in my condemnation. Again, sorry icky came out otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/297 "2011-09-16T19:10:17Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > The problem is folks remember him for his non-political posts, mentally categorize him as “worthwhile poster,” then are surprised when they encounter him in a political thread. What’s up with this deal of talking about the poster instead of the post? Didn’t somebody say great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, and mediocre minds discuss people? Xeno made a great post. I thought it and my reply were worthy of discussion. Its really a fascinating comparison the more you think about it, and there’s room for some fruitful and heated discussion. But no, you are bunch of ten year old girls incapable of discussing something beyond the level of whether you not find somebody “icky.” ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/298 "2011-09-16T19:13:10Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > What’s up with this deal of talking about the poster instead of the post? > > Didn’t somebody say great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, and mediocre minds discuss people? From the guy who said anyone who disagrees with him is broken. Welcome to mediocrity. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/299 "2011-09-16T19:31:27Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > The problem is folks remember him for his non-political posts, mentally categorize him as “worthwhile poster,” then are surprised when they encounter him in a political thread. There was a time when **Scylla** was an honest debater in GD. Maybe it was back in 2000 and 2001, before **Hentor** joined the board, but there was such a time. Honest. Yeah, the **Dio** comparison came to my mind too, but I’m thinking more along the lines of Dennis Miller or James Lileks. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/300 "2011-09-16T19:47:40Z")
Oh god, now it’s the old “he used to be a nice guy” meme. People have been saying that to me in threads since I started posting here in 1999. It’s like the standard tool in the smug little passive aggressive toolbox they issue you when you graduate from simpering weenie school. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/301 "2011-09-16T20:38:08Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Oh god, now it’s the old “he used to be a nice guy” meme. > People have been saying that to me in threads since I started posting here in 1999. Actually, i don’t think you used to be a nice guy. And that wasn’t my argument. My point was that i remember a time when, despite our political differences, we actually had productive debates in which there was, on both sides, an honest attempt to deal with the substantive issues rather than palming them off or pretending they don’t matter. And i’ve always thought your stories were overrated. Happy now? 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105.md?page=16)