# An Open Letter to Paul Krugman **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 12, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105 "2011-09-12T22:52:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/141 "2011-09-14T00:56:50Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I’ll give my best faith effort to explain myself. If you care to read this, try to understand it , and get what I’m saying instead of just thinking of some clever snarky way to respond. Please? > > This is **exactly** what bothers me so much, that you and Krugman and so many others actually believe this kind of thing. To me, it’s just incredibly immature and sloppy and selfish thinking. I’m always ashamed of myself and have bad moments thinking like this because it is so indulgent and sloppy. > > **Bricker** would often say that it’s possible for reasonably people to disagree. In order to believe that you have to have empathy, the ability to put yourself into someone else’s shoes, to look at things from their perspective. If you can do that, you can understand them and you can communicate meaningfully with them. > > If you can’t, then I suggest that you are something less than a human being, something less than a full participant in society. What you are instead is a cardboard cutout, a prejudiced partisan hack. > For example, you say that Bush et al “used the memory of 9/11 to sell the invasion of Iraq, connecting it explicitly with the war on terror.” There is no recognition here of the fact that there is every indication that Bush did and does believe that he did exactly the right thing, that a substantial portion of the populace believes that, too. That it wasn’t sold as some cynical plan, that it was sold as the right thing to do. > > No. You wish to play some partisan game. In reality, Republicans and Democrats should be Americans first. You should recognize that we have a lot more in common than we do in opposition. It is because we have so much in common that the differences seem so large, that we are essentially in it together. > > What happened on 9/11 didn’t happen to Republicans, or Democrats, it happened to the whole country. > > When I think of 9/11, I think of the moment that I realized all the thuds you heard in the film from the lobby were people who had jumped. I see the firefighters going up the stairs, never to come back down. > > I think of a named Rick Rescorla. He was there when I worked in WTC in 1993 at the time of the first bombing. He was the safety officer for Morgan Stanley after that event and he took it really seriously. He annoyed the shit out of everybody with his drills. He was fat and a little ridiculous looking (nobody knew he was a decorated vet.) Well, he got everybody on his whole floor out of the building with his drills. He didn’t wait and have everybody sit put like he was told and like everybody was told. He took it upon himself to evacuate the floor, and he saved everybody’s lives doing it. The reason he was able to make the decision because he took the job seriously and had actually studied the possiblity of an airplane being flown into the tower. He knew what to do when nobody else did. After he got everybody out, he went **up** to help the next floor. He never came down. > > I think about the people on flight '93. I think about George Bush in a classroom full of children, and what he has been told. I watched the Michael Moore film and saw the tape, and what I saw was a man who desperately did not want to frighten the children, and who wondered if by being there he was endangering them. Foolish or wise, like it or don’t like it, it was a fundamentally decent instinct he had there. I don’t understand why that is worthy of ridicule. > > I think about Maria Bartiroma screaming and then the TV cutting out as the first tower fell. > What Krugman thinks about is how much he hates George Bush and Giuliani and Republicans. > > I think it makes him a small and a disgusting human being. I think it makes him self-indulgent and stupid. > > I think it’s a shitty thing to suggest that something like 9/11 could be overshadowed by something as shallow and stupid as partisan politics. I don’t see putting the two in the same category. 9/11 was much bigger than that, and ultimately Krugman’s inability to so see it is a failure of his own humanity. And your’s, too. > > There have been about 4,000 other days for polticing and bitterness and infighting and partisanship. the tenth anniversary of 9/11 was the one day when a decent person holds their tongue on this bullshit and thinks on the bigger. > He’s an asshole. > > If you don’t automatically see it, you are an asshole. Your parents didn’t bring you up right, and you’re not really fit or equipped to interact with society. You need remedial help. You big baby. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/142 "2011-09-14T00:57:32Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Fair enough. > > But Krugman is also kind of emotional in his appeal. His appeal is to anger or hatred of political opponents. That makes him guilty of the same crime. > > Perhaps Krugman feels there is something wrong with emotional appealsto emotional events. I don’t. > > Krugman’s guilty according to his own criteria. That makes him a hypocrite by his own rules. Pure, utter nonsense. OP: FAIL. Last ditch saving throw: FAIL. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/143 "2011-09-14T00:57:41Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > You probably already know it in your heart. It’s true that I don’t think much of you, but I find it hard to believe that there are many people on this board who are just so fucking poor in spirit that they don’t understand this even if they are too much of douchebag to ever admit it. What is it like being so full of shit? Does it ever leak out of your ears? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/144 "2011-09-14T01:01:18Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > No. You wish to play some partisan game. In reality, Republicans and Democrats should be Americans first. You should recognize that we have a lot more in common than we do in opposition. It is because we have so much in common that the differences seem so large, that we are essentially in it together. > > What happened on 9/11 didn’t happen to Republicans, or Democrats, it happened to the whole country. Try as I might, I honestly can’t see any difference between what you wrote in this post, and what Krugman wrote in his column. You both seem to be making identical points: 9/11 should have been a unifying event, not a partisan wedge, and people who used it as one are assholes. You even have exactly the same smidge of irony going on, in that by pointing out that this is a bad thing, you are, to some extent, also engaging in the behavior you’re decrying. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/145 "2011-09-14T01:01:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What is it like being so full of shit? Does it ever leak out of your ears? I actually think you are one of the few that just aren’t going to get it. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/146 "2011-09-14T01:05:30Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Pure, utter nonsense. OP: FAIL. Last ditch saving throw: FAIL. That’s not an answer. That’s just blather and exclamation. You actually made a point in your previous post. Why abandon this new leaf you’ve turned over so soon. My point is fair. Krugman seems to think there is something wrong with emotional appeals and… he argues this with an emotional appeal. That makes him a hypocrite by his own terms. I don’t think there is anything intrinsically wrong with an emotional appeal (particularly one to empathy,) so I don’t think the criticism applies to me. What about this is logically unsound? What about it don’t you agree with? Why? Do you think emotional appeals are ok, or not? Always or sometimes? You could have said something worthwhile. Try again. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/147 "2011-09-14T01:06:38Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > You probably already know it in your heart. It’s true that I don’t think much of you, but I find it hard to believe that there are many people on this board who are just so fucking poor in spirit that they don’t understand this even if they are too much of douchebag to ever admit it. I fully understand why people can’t let go of something. I find that inability to be infantile and childish. Life goes on, and one has to deal with it. It’s perfectly possible for me to regret both that 9-11-01 occurred and that my President, my Congress, and my country responded poorly. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/148 "2011-09-14T01:14:19Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Try as I might, I honestly can’t see any difference between what you wrote in this post, and what Krugman wrote in his column. You both seem to be making identical points: 9/11 should have been a unifying event, not a partisan wedge, and people who used it as one are assholes. You even have exactly the same smidge of irony going on, in that by pointing out that this is a bad thing, you are, to some extent, also engaging in the behavior you’re decrying. I think the difference is that It’s pretty clear Krugman was driving a partisan wedge as hard as he could. I didn’t see Bush doing it, or Giuliani, or Obama, or anybody else. Krugman was the highest profile person I saw being a total fucking asshole on the 10th anniversary of 9/11. Secondly, I also think that the premise you’re making is wrong. Bush et al didn’t use 9/11 as a partisan wedge. It became that, true. But, they did not do that by themselves. It takes two to tango. To pretend, as Krugman does that everything bad that happened after 9/11 and all the divisive partisanship was Bush’s and Republicans’ fault is just laughingly immature and simplistic. That’s just stupid partisanship. Sunday was not the day for it. Krugman didn’t get the memo. No memo was sent, because you are supposed to know better simply by virtue of being a sensitive human being and a member of society. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/149 "2011-09-14T01:16:05Z")
So you’re basically upset because he didn’t wait until Monday? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/150 "2011-09-14T01:19:28Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > So you’re basically upset because he didn’t wait until Monday? As I stated at some length, I think his sentiments are unworthy at any time. They also just happen to be totally inappropriate within the context of the 9/11 commemoration. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/151 "2011-09-14T01:23:32Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I actually think you are one of the few that just aren’t going to get it. You need to get the plank out of your own eye, Pharisee. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/152 "2011-09-14T01:27:01Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > As I stated at some length, I think his sentiments are unworthy at any time. The sentiment that people should respect the victims instead of trying to exploit them for personal gain is “unworthy at any time?” This is seriously how you feel? Basically, you’re butthurt because Krugman called you on your bullshit. If you;re capable of self-examination. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/153 "2011-09-14T01:35:12Z")
I’ve been called worse things by better people. (PS: As a Canadian, I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/154 "2011-09-14T01:38:46Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I think the difference is that It’s pretty clear Krugman was driving a partisan wedge as hard as he could. I didn’t see Bush doing it, or Giuliani, or Obama, or anybody else. Krugman was the highest profile person I saw being a total fucking asshole on the 10th anniversary of 9/11. I didn’t compare Krugman to Bush, or Obama, or Giuliani. I compared him to you. And I’m still not seeing a difference between what you’ve said, and what he said, except that you’re coming at it from opposite sides of the political aisle. > [@](#): > > Secondly, I also think that the premise you’re making is wrong. Bush et al didn’t use 9/11 as a partisan wedge. It became that, true. But, they did not do that by themselves. It takes two to tango. To pretend, as Krugman does that everything bad that happened after 9/11 and all the divisive partisanship was Bush’s and Republicans’ fault is just laughingly immature and simplistic. That’s just stupid partisanship. I don’t believe I stated any such premise in my last post. Let me double check. Nnnnope. I didn’t say anything at all about who started it, or who was more responsible for it. Krugman called out the people on the right who did that sort of thing. You called out people on the left who do that sort of thing. Again, I’m not seeing a difference, here. > [@](#): > > Sunday was not the day for it. Krugman didn’t get the memo. No memo was sent, because you are supposed to know better simply by virtue of being a sensitive human being and a member of society. Okay, so there’s _one_ difference: Krugman’s rant about the politicization of 9/11 came on the anniversary, and your rant about the politicization of 9/11 came the day after 9/11. But considering your insistence that it didn’t matter what day he wrote his, this does not seem like a terribly important distinction. At any rate, if you don’t want to read political analysis about 9/11, it’s probably a good idea not to read political blogs on 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![Charogne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecd19e/32.png) [@Charogne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charogne)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/155 "2011-09-14T01:43:17Z")
Scylla, I think you’re honestly hurt, and sincerely outraged. I just don’t think you’re the most observant cat on the block. To put it in C.S. Lewis terms, I think you’re Puzzle, accusing everyone else of being Ginger. It’ll all work out in Aslan’s time, whether you voted for Shift or not. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/156 "2011-09-14T01:47:41Z")
Miller: I’m not really buying into your attempts at moral equivalence between Krugman and I. It makes so little sense to me I wonder if you are being serious. No offense, but I don’t even want to bother with it. I see big differences and I think they’re obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/157 "2011-09-14T01:55:23Z")
> [@Charogne](#): > > To put it in C.S. Lewis terms, I think you’re Puzzle, accusing everyone else of being Ginger. It’ll all work out in Aslan’s time, whether you voted for Shift or not. Could you restate that in Tolkien? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/158 "2011-09-14T01:55:49Z")
I have to agree with what others have said. It sounds to me like “how dare a liberal exploit the memory of 9/11 by pointing out how conservatives spent the last ten years exploiting the memory of 9/11.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/159 "2011-09-14T01:58:07Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Miller: > > I’m not really buying into your attempts at moral equivalence between Krugman and I. There certainly is no moral equivalence there. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105/160 "2011-09-14T01:59:58Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Life is more complex than Krugman suggests. Yes. Actually, Krugman himself sometimes suggests it. I was struck by this from his actual 9/11/11 [newspaper column](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/12/opinion/an-impeccable-disaster.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss): > [@](#): > > I’ve complained a lot about the “fiscalization” of economic discourse here in America, the way in which a premature focus on budget deficits turned Washington’s attention away from the ongoing jobs disaster. But we’re not unique in that respect, and in fact the Europeans have been much, much worse. So despite all his roaring columns about how Obama has caved to the Republicans, the countries whose economic policies are much, much worse than ours are – Germany and France! I realize that people like the OP guy have to write to make a living, and that it’s hard to come up with ideas. But, at the risk of showing myself a prude, my personal view is that the OP article, just like Krugman’s piece, might have been better kept in the drawer. This past weekend was a better time to honor the dead than to fight the culture war. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-paul-krugman/596105.md?page=9)