# An open letter to the abortion who objects to the Darwins on my car **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 10, 2002, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191 "2002-05-10T00:13:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191/81 "2002-05-12T08:06:56Z")
Feh, the guy who did this is a jerk and deserves to be arrested, but frankly I have little sympathy for people lightnin since the only reason for the Darwin or the “pixie” bumper emblems is just your way to collectively say “Fuck you” to thousands of people each day and mock some of there deepest and most cherished beliefs. Admit it, some small black little part of you was overjoyed when this happened as it only fueled your holier-then-thou attitude to those backwards hicks called Christians. I, personally, am not really a Christian (haven’t gone to any sort of church service in years). So don’t think that this is a defense of the faith. It is just an attack on another sniveling little self-righteous prick. Yeah, who ever is doing this should be forced to knock it off, but you deserve no sympathy. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191/82 "2002-05-12T08:11:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by king of spain \* > \*\*[pedant mode=ON]Uh, **rjung** , you do know that Baptists _are_ Protestants, right?[/pedant] \*\* Oh, _great,_ **king,** ruin my joke with some _facts,_ whydoncha? 😉 That’s what I get for posting while writing test code… ---
**Author:** ![Wikkit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c0e974/32.png) [@Wikkit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wikkit)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191/83 "2002-05-12T11:33:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muad’Dib \* > **Feh, the guy who did this is a jerk and deserves to be arrested, but frankly I have little sympathy for people lightnin since the only reason for the Darwin or the “pixie” bumper emblems is just your way to collectively say “Fuck you” to thousands of people each day and mock some of there deepest and most cherished beliefs.** So you think that there’s no justification for that ‘Fuck You’? Every Jesus fish and WWJD and all the other magic sky pixie bullshit is then saying ‘Fuck You’ to a large group of people. Fuck that, Maud. I don’t think declaring yourself a member of any group, majority or minority, justifies vandalism. Is it that much to ask that if I leave your shit alone, you leave my shit alone? Perhaps even that you not condone vandalism just because you can’t empathize with the group that is the target of the vandalism? Why should I be afraid to put a Darwin fish or a science fish (or even a rocket fish) on my car because I’m worried that some dumbass who can’t reconcile his faith and the truth will fuck with my car? ---
**Author:** ![Stupendous\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Stupendous\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stupendous_man)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191/84 "2002-05-12T13:46:51Z")
I love the Isis Emblem at the Evolvefish site. Look at the price: No, it’s not $0.00 It’s actually $7.00 on sale! Funny. ---
**Author:** ![greatZebu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed655f/32.png) [@greatZebu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greatZebu)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191/85 "2002-05-12T15:17:25Z")
> [@](#): > > _Orgininally posted by Critical1:_ > and people wonder why christans/catholics/mormans/insertfavoritereligeousgroupwithafwefanaticalmembershere piss me off. This troubles me, all the moreso because no one has said anything about it. Imagine that I was harassed by some members of the Nation of Islam, and posted: “and people wonder why blacks piss me off.” Obviously a racist and bigoted statement, right? No way I’m getting away with that unchallenged, right? Of course not, and I shouldn’t. I don’t see how this is any different really. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191/86 "2002-05-12T15:55:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by greatZebu \* > \*\* Obviously a racist and bigoted statement, right? No way I’m getting away with that unchallenged, right? Of course not, and I shouldn’t. I don’t see how this is any different really. \*\* The difference is that skin color is not a way of thinking, while being a religious fanatic is. ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191/87 "2002-05-12T17:02:32Z")
What about when you have the sort of uppity jerks who call anyone that dares pronounce some sort of moral certainty a religious fanatic. Mr. Lightnin didn’t put up that Darwin to “fight religious fanaticism”, he put it up to piss off thousands of ordinary folks and make himself feel superior to them. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191/88 "2002-05-12T18:40:59Z")
**Muad’Dib** , “moral certainty” doesn’t make one a fanatic. Being pissed off by opposing views to the point that you commit a fucking crime does make one a fanatic. I see bumper stickers all the time that piss me off (fuckin’ rebel flag), yet somehow I manage to _not_ destroy others property. Do you maybe see the difference there? ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191/89 "2002-05-12T18:43:59Z")
By the way I like how Christians beliefs are “deep” and “cherished” even when they go against Jesus’ teachings. Do you think maybe athiests “cherish” their “deeply held” beliefs as well? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191/90 "2002-05-12T19:08:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muad’Dib \* > \*\*Mr. Lightnin didn’t put up that Darwin to “fight religious fanaticism”, he put it up to piss off thousands of ordinary folks and make himself feel superior to them. \*\* **Maud’Dib** - no the fuck I didn’t. I put it up to show that I believe that studying the world around us is a hell of a lot better than saying “Goddiddit”. If it pisses some people off, that’s _their_ problem, not mine. I don’t go around ripping off those “Truth eating Darwin” plaques. I may shake my head at the obvious hypocrisy. I may even chuckle every now and then. Seeing those doesn’t piss me off at religious whack jobs everywhere, and it doesn’t spur me to violence. I’ll thank you to not assume you know my motivations better than I do. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191/91 "2002-05-12T19:55:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muad’Dib \* > \*\*Mr. Lightnin didn’t put up that Darwin to “fight religious fanaticism”, he put it up to piss off thousands of ordinary folks and make himself feel superior to them. \*\* By the same token, did my neighbour put the “Jesus Saves” bumper sticker on his car just to piss of thousands of ordinary folks and make himself feel superior to them? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191/92 "2002-05-12T20:06:31Z")
The sole purpose as far as I can see for displaying these Darwin fish is to deliberately taunt those of creation/Christian persuasion by displaying scorn for their beliefs. I can see every reason to compare these fish to swastikas for the purpose of insulting Jews. I find the effort to display such items as offensive and deserving of criticism rather than vandalism however. My apologies to the Vandals. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191/93 "2002-05-12T20:14:09Z")
**Grien** , I am sure you don’t intend to belittle other’s beliefs, but think about it- does someone displaying a star of david intend to belittle gentiles? Does someone displaying a Jesus fish intend to belittle non-christians? The only bumperstickers I’ve seen that are _intended_ to offend are the truth-fish-eating-darwin-fish decals. ---
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191/94 "2002-05-12T20:19:33Z")
I’m an atheist, and If i saw one of those “Science Fish” I would assume that the owner was either a Christian Scientist or some kind of Modernist. Of course I wouldn’t vandalize it, I’m just saying that you may be sending the wrong message to those who are out of the loop. ---
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191/95 "2002-05-12T20:25:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Tim \* > \*\ ***Lightnin’** test if it is ideologically motivated. Put a Jesus fish on your car for a day and see if that gets destroyed. If it is left alone all that means is that for some reason they don’t want to break that one. This could be because of agreeing ideology or because they think that screwing with a Christian symbol is more dangerous because of the community standards. If it is torn off and broken then the person is just a vandal with no agenda. \*\* Thats ridiculous. Thats like saying “put a swastika\* on to test if they’re nazis.” He has no obligation to prove whether or not they’re Christians, and he shouldn’t pretend to be someone hes not so that the vandals can be properly idealogically ID’d i. \*I’m not saying that Naziism and Christianity are similar, just an analogy of how he doesn’t want to appear to be either. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191/96 "2002-05-12T20:46:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grienspace \* > \*\*The sole purpose as far as I can see for displaying these Darwin fish is to deliberately taunt those of creation/Christian persuasion by displaying scorn for their beliefs. I can see every reason to compare these fish to swastikas for the purpose of insulting Jews. I find the effort to display such items as offensive and deserving of criticism rather than vandalism however. My apologies to the Vandals. \*\* And a desire to express a contradictory view has no part of it? It has to be scorn? Do you think that all athiests are as mean-spirited as the ones in your world? Or do you have a bad experience you’d like to share? ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191/97 "2002-05-12T20:56:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Every Jesus fish and WWJD and all the other magic sky pixie bullshit is then saying ‘Fuck You’ to a large group of people. No, they are not. They are NOT (at least most of them are NOT) saying “Fuck you” to anyone. They are just happy, happy, happy with their beliefs. Happy happy. They are not trying (consciously) to “stick it” to anyone. Am I trying to “stick it” to anyone when I put a Yosemite National Park bumper sticker on my car? Maybe there’s someone out there who didn’t have a good experience in Yosemite, and they much prefer Lassen or Yellowstone. So they are irritated by my car, with all its Yosemite stickers. Or maybe they just HATE California (I’ve met this type, trust me). Does this mean that I consciously was trying to say “Fuck you” to all these people? No. The difference between other evolution stickers (like “Oh, Evolve!”, etc.) and the Darwin Fish sticker is that the Darwin Fish is a _direct take-off_ of the Jesus Fish, which has been around forever. So, when some Christians see the Darwin Fish, not only do they know that the person believes in Evolution, they see the symbol they have chosen to use (the fish) as an attempt to “mock” the Christian Fish. _This_ is why it is uniquely offensive to some. ( **NOT** that it excuses vandalism of any kind.) It offends me (a little) because I don’t think it’s necessary to “take-off” on someone else’s age-old symbol in order to get your point across. The “Oh Evolve” bumper stickers are funny. Many of the “Goddess” or Wiccan inspired stickers are cute. As long as there is no direct attempt to mock someone else’s beliefs, all’s fine with me. As a vegetarian, I am not _offended_ every time I see a fishing bumper sticker (and I see them a lot). Why? Because the person is just obviously happy with fishing. They almost certainly were not thinking of vegetarians when they attached that sticker to their bumper. They just wanted to express their love for fishing. I do not take offense at this. No offense is intended. Some of the Christian bumper stickers are pretty rude and sanctimonious, in my opinion. The “In case of Rapture, this car will be unoccupied” is especially smug and annoying. Not all bumper stickers (on either side) are created equal. Some are just happy, happy, happy, some are trying to “stick it” to the other side. Don’t try to tell me that many of you don’t already know this. Don’t try to tell me that you don’t KNOW that you will ruffle the feathers of religious folk when you put this sticker on your car. (And yes, religious folk will do the same thing, with some of their annoying stickers.) But just because a sticker has an atheist (or Christian) theme, it DOES NOT mean that it is meant to ‘stick it’ to the other side. It all depends on the tone of the mesage. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191/98 "2002-05-12T21:54:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > **The difference between other evolution stickers (like “Oh, Evolve!”, etc.) and the Darwin Fish sticker is that the Darwin Fish is a _direct take-off_ of the Jesus Fish, which has been around forever.** So Christians are exempt from parody? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191/99 "2002-05-12T21:56:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hansel \* > \*\* > > And a desire to express a contradictory view has no part of it? It has to be scorn? > > Do you think that all athiests are as mean-spirited as the ones in your world? Or do you have a bad experience you’d like to share? \*\* > [@](#): > > _grendel72_ > Grien, I am sure you don’t intend to belittle other’s beliefs, but think about it- does someone displaying a star of david intend to belittle gentiles? Does someone displaying a Jesus fish intend to belittle non-christians? Please read **yosemitebabe** for an accurate view of the issue. I would like to add that the Jesus fish symbol was born at a time of severe Christian victimization and bloodshed and is therefore primarily associated with the terrible period, just as the Swastika is associated with the holocaust for Jews. Only the Jesus fish is cherished, and any desecration can only be regarded as a deliberate affront to all Christians whether or not evolution is an issue for them. **hansel** , some of my best friends are atheists, (and I can spell it correctly too, take note), but aren’t driven to confront the beliefs of others in such an inciteful fashion. Reading some of the above comments sound eerily like neo-nazis discussing the innocence of their displayed swastikas. They love to wrap the freedom of speech around their “contradictory view” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191/100 "2002-05-12T21:58:01Z")
Heck, after living in Korea and Japan, and having a long association with a number of Vietnamese, I’d just as likely assume someone driving around with a swastika on their car is Buddhist. But that’s just me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-abortion-who-objects-to-the-darwins-on-my-car/108191.md?page=6)