# An open letter to the public about my noisy kids **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 22, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940 "2013-10-22T16:31:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/241 "2013-10-31T19:21:32Z")
> [@CLee](#): > > Look, my kids aren’t precocious Didn’t you say the one-year-old could read a little bit? ---
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/242 "2013-10-31T19:33:38Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > Didn’t you say the one-year-old could read a little bit? Same way any other pre-three year old reads. She calls out the names she recognizes on the covers of books and a few signs. If the words were taken out of context and sans logo, she can’t read. She also doesn’t yet know that all strangers don’t want to play ball with her, that crayons are no big deal, and that candy tastes better than fruit. She also thinks she can sit in doll furniture and that putting spaghetti and chicken soup in her hair is a solid plan. I’m sure her synapses are tripling by the hour, but it will be years before she learns there are people in the world who expect her to behave exactly as they do. And I kind of hope she never learns there are people in the world who think she should continue to live an isolated existence because kids are too much trouble to endure in public. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/243 "2013-10-31T19:34:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes and most adults will deal with a child who can’t behave instead of extolling how great the experience it is. That’s true, and upon reading further in this thread I find that I agree with **TokyoBayer** : As a parent, I don’t understand what the OP is trying to say. Sometimes he seems to be defending the idea that children have a place in public and sometimes they make noise, which I agree with, and sometimes he seems to be defending the idea that he doesn’t have to take care that his children aren’t bothering other people, which I disagree with. ---
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/244 "2013-10-31T19:50:22Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > That’s true, and upon reading further in this thread I find that I agree with **TokyoBayer** : As a parent, I don’t understand what the OP is trying to say. Sometimes he seems to be defending the idea that children have a place in public and sometimes they make noise, which I agree with, and sometimes he seems to be defending the idea that he doesn’t have to take care that his children aren’t bothering other people, which I disagree with. My stance hasn’t changed at all, but I didn’t expect to have to defend bringing kids to the store with me. I didn’t expect anyone to ask me to leave them at home so life is easier for them, but since I’ve never encountered anyone but friendly people when we go out, I’m not sure this sample is anything to worry about. If you are bothered by the mere presence of small children in stores or restaurants, I’m not going to accommodate that. For the record: tantrums haven’t occurred yet and the oldest child never had a tantrum outside the home. When one does, we’ll leave immediately. Screaming, screeching and shrieking also don’t happen, but when and if it does, I’ll put a stop to it immediately. The little one claps, laughs and squeals whenever anyone hands her an unexpected surprise and that’s been happening a lot lately thanks to Halloween. She’s noisy for sure. Happy, but noisy. She’s never received any correction for her exuberance other than a whispered “shhh”, which causes her to repeat the same action sotto voce, which makes my husband and me laugh out loud. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/245 "2013-10-31T19:51:06Z")
> [@CLee](#): > > Look, my kids aren’t precocious or particularly good looking, they are average in every way yet many people stop them to compliment their behavior or goof around with them a little. In the OP you referred to them as “noisy” and “nosy”. You said that one child squeals “just to hear the sound of her own voice” in public places, and that some of her squeals were high-pitched and irritating, and you said quite explicitly that you were inconsiderate about the squealing. And your advice to those who objected to the squealing was to get ear protection, or to avoid any public place to which you might bring your children, saying > [@](#): > > Get over yourselves you have no right or reasonable expectation of a pleasant trip to Walmart. You said your child approached strangers speaking gibberish, grabbed and threw balls from toy displays, and broke into the cleaning supplies. But now they are suddently beloved by all. Uh-_huh._ Regards, Sho-damned ---
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/246 "2013-10-31T20:00:42Z")
> [@Sho-damned](#): > > In the OP you referred to them as “noisy” and “nosy”. You said that one child squeals “just to hear the sound of her own voice” in public places, and that some of her squeals were high-pitched and irritating, and you said quite explicitly that you were inconsiderate about the squealing. And your advice to those who objected to the squealing was to get ear protection, or to avoid any public place to which you might bring your children, saying > > You said your child approached strangers speaking gibberish, grabbed and threw balls from toy displays, and broke into the cleaning supplies. But now they are suddently beloved by all. > > Uh-_huh._ > > Regards, > Sho-damned No, I didn’t say that. I said the little one is 13 months and “threw” (rolled, she can’t throw yet) a ball she discovered laying in the tech aisle presumably moved by some other kid from the toy aisle. I have three kids, I’m not crazy enough to go down a toy aisle. But she was corrected and I apologized to the guy. She unlocked the cleaning supply cabinet at home in the time it took me to fill the sink to wash dishes. Yes, she speaks a near constant stream of gibberish to strangers, most of whom speak back and many of whom initiate the conversation because a lot of people love kids. Strangers are free to ignore anyone who speaks with them be it toddlers, clerks, or proselytizers, aren’t they? And I never said the kids were beloved by all, I said we encounter friendly people. I’ve never once before of since starting a family run into any real life people who were as insular and introverted as those who demand that children be left at home for simple errands. I don’t believe such people exist outside the realm of a message board, and if they do exist, I can’t imagine that the presence of families in a Walmart is the biggest problem they face each day. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/247 "2013-10-31T20:05:13Z")
> [@CLee](#): > > My stance hasn’t changed at all, but I didn’t expect to have to defend bringing kids to the store with me. I didn’t expect anyone to ask me to leave them at home so life is easier for them, but since I’ve never encountered anyone but friendly people when we go out, I’m not sure this sample is anything to worry about. You are responsible for the behavior and conduct of your children in public. Most adults can easily discern when a child is just being a child, or when a child is being a ratbag. When the caregiver or parent is clueless between the two, therein lies a problem. The OP is clueless between the two, and the repetitive discussion she started. > [@](#): > > If you are bothered by the mere presence of small children in stores or restaurants, I’m not going to accommodate that. Small children in stores and restaurants never bother me. Only their clueless parents. I’ve long desired a major store to take a stance and have a No Child Saturday when no one under 16 is allowed in the store. It not about the kids. It’s about the parents who are blind to their ratbag children in public. ---
**Author:** ![Macca26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Macca26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macca26)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/248 "2013-10-31T20:24:07Z")
> [@UnzippedJJ](#): > > As a member of The Public, I’m glad I read this important information from **CLee**. Next time I hear a kid shrieking I’ll be sure to ask the parent whether or not they are **CLee**. If not, I’ll tell them that maybe they need to write up their excuse on the Internet too and I will add it to my file. This quote on page 1 pretty much sums up the efficacy of the original post and the whole ensuing thread. CLee can go blue in the face explaining about her children and it really won’t have any effect on the rest of us. We will treat her and her annoying children (if we ever meet them) the same as any other annoying child: with distaste, because they are all the same when they aren’t yours. In the meantime, since she offered herself up to the sharks for no good reason we can continue to explain to her until we’re blue in the face that we don’t know what any of us are arguing about anymore and we can’t decide if she’s guilty of it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/249 "2013-10-31T21:14:52Z")
> [@CLee](#): > > I got a couple-three PMs on the first page warning me that the introverts and child-haters would be out in force to attack “See, lots of people privately agree with me!!” All the classic memes are on display in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/250 "2013-10-31T21:24:14Z")
See, I don’t care what disagreements everyone else made. You started this thread, then you became rude and insulting, making strawman arguments that no one else did. That’s what I’m talking about, as well as several others, and you’ve yet to address that. If you had remained like you were on the first page, I’d have been completely on board with your position. But once you started attacking people, all bets were off. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/251 "2013-10-31T23:39:40Z")
> [@Macca26](#): > > This quote on page 1 pretty much sums up the efficacy of the original post and the whole ensuing thread. > > CLee can go blue in the face explaining about her children and it really won’t have any effect on the rest of us. We will treat her and her annoying children (if we ever meet them) the same as any other annoying child: with distaste, because they are all the same when they aren’t yours. > > In the meantime, since she offered herself up to the sharks for no good reason we can continue to explain to her until we’re blue in the face that we don’t know what any of us are arguing about anymore and we can’t decide if she’s guilty of it or not. The weird thing is it’s impossible to tell from her posts whether the kids really are annoying. It sounds like they’re not, but she wants them to have the right to be annoying, because _she_ wants the right to be loud and obnoxious herself. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/252 "2013-11-01T00:59:22Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The weird thing is it’s impossible to tell from her posts whether the kids really are annoying. It sounds like they’re not, but she wants them to have the right to be annoying, because _she_ wants the right to be loud and obnoxious herself. Not true. Things she has posted: > [@CLee](#): > > My child just started walking and is squealing from the pure joy of her new found freedom and accomplishments. She’s not complaining, shes reveling and it’s some of nature’s best music, on par with puppies and kittens playing. I don’t expect you to like it, but if you’ll pause for a second and look at her face, you’ll see what a tremendous leap in learning and growth she has just made. Here she clearly states she doesn’t expect strangers to like it. > [@CLee](#): > > She squeals and laughs very loud, and some of her squeals are high pitched and irritating. And here she’s admitting she thinks it’s annoying. > [@CLee](#): > > Sometimes she squeals when she’s given crayons in a restaurant. Sometimes she squeals just to hear her own voice. I’ll teach her to use her inside voice when it counts, like church and funerals and other unavoidably somber locations.I will also teach her not to scream as though she is frightened, but most of the time and in most locations kids are allowed, I’m going to share in her joy and grin when she chatters and squeals. Future tense. Some day she’ll teach her kids appropriate behavior. In the mean time the public needs to love the joyous sounds he special little snowflakes make. > [@CLee](#): > > When I say things like “My child can do no wrong” what I mean is "I love her unconditionally, When she says “her child can do no wrong” we hear “her child can do no wrong”. > [@CLee](#): > > My thirteen year old and most teenagers are a bit more sophisticated than we give them credit for. Don’t talk down to her, she has a huge vocabulary and can keep up with any conversation. More than likely a greeting and how are you or how’s school is all that’s necessary. She probably isn’t interested in our conversation, but she can certainly keep up nearly as well as any adult. Just acknowledge her the same as you would any adult in a group. She should be treated like a 13 year old because she’s 13 has has the life experiences of a 13 year old. Her great vocabulary doesn’t make her an adult, it makes her a spelling-B contestant. Originally Posted by MacTech I have measured the decibel levels of screaming, shrieking kids (there’s an app for that, it’s a decibel meter) and found that the decibel range is typically 89-110 dB, threshold for hearing damage is 88 dB and is cumulative, the scale is logarithmic, every 3 dB DOUBLES the damage and HALVES the exposure time, a 91 dB noise is twice as loud as a 88 dB sound So, please forgive me if I don’t share in your joy, it hurts my ears (literally) > [@CLee](#): > > Holy crap I had no idea, I’m sure that is annoying to quiet types. I’ll mention for the third or fourth time that she isn’t shrieking or making sounds like she is hurt or scared, she is laughing, clapping, and squealing at her accomplishments, and yes, it would probably annoy me too if I were trying to read a book outside or something. Yet again, she admits the noise from her children is annoying but it’s OK, because they are “joyful” sounds. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/253 "2013-11-01T01:30:49Z")
> [@CLee](#): > > I intended to respond to the folks in the other thread and this one who insist that small children should be left at home for the convenience of other shoppers. > [@CLee](#): > > No, I didn’t say that. I said the little one is 13 months and “threw” (rolled, she can’t throw yet) a ball she discovered laying in the tech aisle presumably moved by some other kid from the toy aisle. I have three kids, I’m not crazy enough to go down a toy aisle. But she was corrected and I apologized to the guy. Bullshit. Keep your damn stories straight. Do you see one of the menu items above? The one called “Search”? It keeps people honest. Let’s look at your very words. Note that this is what you [**CLee** wrote](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16780276&postcount=20) > [@](#): > > We avoid the toy aisle at all costs, but when the four year old encountered a stray ball in the middle of the tech aisle at Walmart last week, yeah, she threw it. Hard. And clapped at her accomplishment. Let’s compare the two phrases here. “the little one is 13 months” vs. “the four year old” “(rolled, she can’t throw yet)” vs. “she threw it. Hard.” One of the dangers of making shit up is that it’s hard to keep the stories straight. For the love of all of the sheep in Hal’s world, do not write an open letter to the public and then lie to people about what you wrote. It makes it impossible to have a conversation. If you cannot see how other adults form two completely different images about a 13-year old rolling a ball vs. a four year old throwing a ball hard then go back to talking to yourself while you do housework. Write a blog. Talk to your dog. You are constantly blaming the “child-haters.” Go back and note how many have carefully pointed out that they are parents as well. You simply cannot write that you have a four-year-old who _throws_ balls down the isle and not get feedback that that is not acceptable. It was some one else who pointed out that the middle child has development issues. Most of the people here are not idiots. Many if not most have had children or have been exposed enough to children that we know that four-year-olds are expected to not throw balls in stores. In the various versions of what you say, (which is so far all over the map that I can’t keep track) you talk about attempting to accomplish monumental achievements on each shopping trip. But if you have a four-year-old who is developmentally at a two-year-old, then she needs to be treated differently than most children of her age. It doesn’t sound like you are providing sufficient supervision if you are attempting to teach a 13-year-old how to be perfectly civilized at the same time. This is one reason for the responses and the reason for some of the people who were suggesting you leave her at home. I’ve gone shopping with two toddlers and it’s exhausting, and I’m not trying to engage a teenager at the same time. As a fellow parent of children in the same age, I do have questions about your parenting, though. You seriously allow a four-year-old to throw balls hard in your house. (And don’t insult us by claiming you didn’t write that.) How can you teach a child that throwing balls indoors is wrong when you allow it in your house? Anyway, back to the ball incident without any good explanation, after your threw that one out (no pun intended), how can you complain about the reactions from people? Again. Just what the fuck is your purpose? This is not just me, a lot of people are saying this. > [@suranyi](#): > > That’s true, and upon reading further in this thread I find that I agree with **TokyoBayer** : As a parent, I don’t understand what the OP is trying to say. > [@Tequila\_Party](#): > > See, I don’t care what disagreements everyone else made. You started this thread, then you became rude and insulting, making strawman arguments that no one else did. That’s what I’m talking about, as well as several others, and you’ve yet to address that. If you had remained like you were on the first page, I’d have been completely on board with your position. But once you started attacking people, all bets were off. > [@Macca26](#): > > In the meantime, since she offered herself up to the sharks for no good reason we can continue to explain to her until we’re blue in the face that we don’t know what any of us are arguing about anymore and we can’t decide if she’s guilty of it or not. > [@Sho-damned](#): > > You said your child approached strangers speaking gibberish, grabbed and threw balls from toy displays, and broke into the cleaning supplies. But now they are suddently beloved by all. > > Uh-_huh._ > [@CLee](#): > > I got a couple-three PMs on the first page warning me that the introverts and child-haters would be out in force to attack but I had no idea that anyone would admit to feeling so entitled as to demand that families hire a babysitter to go to the grocery store so they don’t have to see or listen to kids. Why the fuck are you attacking introverts now? At this stage, is a rational discussion possible? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/254 "2013-11-01T01:46:00Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Why the fuck are you attacking introverts now? At this stage, is a rational discussion possible? She really doesn’t like [introverts](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16694390). Ya’ll are wasting your time arguing with her. You’d be better off banging your head against the wall. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/255 "2013-11-01T02:09:50Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > She really doesn’t like [introverts](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16694390). > > Ya’ll are wasting your time arguing with her. You’d be better off banging your head against the wall. Yeah, at this stage, all we can do is point out the bullshit. If this continues then someone will pit her. Not that it would help anything. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/256 "2013-11-01T12:41:23Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > If you cannot see how other adults form two completely different images about a 13- **year** old rolling a ball vs. a four year old throwing a ball hard then go back to talking to yourself while you do housework. Write a blog. Talk to your dog. 13- **month** -old, and I’d call bullshit on that story even if it weren’t an attempt to backpedal out of your earlier BS. An even the Grinch would not object to a 13-month-old rolling balls. Fuck, you do not expect that age of a child to understand that toys in stores are not to be touched. You simply keep them away from them. My children would go absolutely batshit crazy if I were to attempt to parent the way you claim you do. ---
**Author:** ![Zago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecccb3/32.png) [@Zago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zago)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/257 "2013-11-11T06:05:00Z")
! thought of Clee today because of a recent incident at my house. Friends (two families) came over, with kids, ages 13-18. We went out to walk around town (it’s a tourist town) and the 13 year old immediately started to whine because he wanted to go to a certain shop and leave. His parents couldn’t or wouldn’t drive home the fact that this was a group outing. He finally dissolved in tears and I had to give the dad the keys to my house so the rest of us could enjoy ourselves without listening to the whining/crying. The thing is, the legitimately challenged kid (seriously challenged) was a perfect gentleman throughout. Of course, he’s been taught since he was a babe to behave. ---
**Author:** ![Zago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecccb3/32.png) [@Zago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zago)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/258 "2013-11-11T06:23:57Z")
I wasn’t clear, the parents of this 13 yr. old have treated him with kid gloves since was born with sleep apnea. He’s never disciplined and has turned into a self intitled brat. The other boy was born with serious developmental issues, it’s amazing he’s even alive. Of course he receives special consideration but he is praised or disciplined depending on his behavior - he’s actually getting along in the world. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/259 "2013-11-11T06:36:41Z")
> [@CLee](#): > > I hear you. But they can’t learn to behave around strangers unless I take them around strangers. Please wade through my previous post. Believe it or not, your presence, even if you hate kids and have no patience or tolerance at for little kids, helps teach them how to behave. It takes years to learn how to avoid trampling on the rights of others, and I’m doing my best to raise social creatures. > . There are plenty of opportunities for kids to socialize that don’t involve disrupting strangers’ leisure time. My evening dining out shouldn’t be ruined to provide your kid with an example of what not to do. Use family gatherings or kids’ birthday parties for that purpose if you really need to. Besides, there’s simply a period in life when kids won’t behave. They’ll scream for any reason or no reason at all, regardless of how much effort you’ll make to teach them to behave. That’s a time when they shouldn’t be at a restaurant because they’re likely to be a nuisance. Wait some years, and they’ll be much more amenable to your teachings. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940.md?page=12)