# An open letter to the public about my noisy kids **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 22, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940 "2013-10-22T16:31:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/121 "2013-10-25T21:33:34Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > I’m 46 and single so the odds of it ever being my turn are diminishing by the day. Different subject for different thread, perhaps, but if you want children at your age, bear in mind there are probably lots of women who are 30+ who would love to meet a man who would like to have children. I don’t know how to find them easily, online dating, maybe, but I was thrilled to stumble across an older partner who waited until his early 40s to pursue parenthood. We’ve had a terrific experience with ours. But I wouldn’t have chosen him if he hadn’t stated very clearly that he was interested in kids and family. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/122 "2013-10-25T22:52:13Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > I’m assuming she’s referring to when Social Security checks/debits come out. > > I don’t get this one, why can’t you shop when the kids are home in bed? I see this a lot from childless people, and it flabbergasts me every time. Do they not understand that until a child is fairly old he cannot be left alone in the house without adult supervision? And therefore if the adult(s) need to leave the house for any reason, including shopping, then either they need to call a babysitter or the child needs to go with them. And it’s idiotic to call a babysitter for every shopping trip. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/123 "2013-10-26T02:50:46Z")
I’m surprised that some parents think that non-parents can go without sleep. Non-parents might have the same daily schedule as parents do…that is, they might have to shop sometime between 7 AM and 10 PM. That’s…about the same times that there are free-range kids in the stores. Are people who don’t have small kids supposed to go home, sleep for a couple of hours, and then try to shop between the hours of 10 PM and midnight? Even then, there’s a good chance that Mom and/or Dad have an infant or toddler with them. This is assuming, of course, that the store doesn’t close at 10. Most grocery stores around here do close at 9 or 10. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/124 "2013-10-26T03:15:32Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I’m surprised that some parents think that non-parents can go without sleep. Non-parents might have the same daily schedule as parents do…that is, they might have to shop sometime between 7 AM and 10 PM. That’s…about the same times that there are free-range kids in the stores. Are people who don’t have small kids supposed to go home, sleep for a couple of hours, and then try to shop between the hours of 10 PM and midnight? Even then, there’s a good chance that Mom and/or Dad have an infant or toddler with them. This is assuming, of course, that the store doesn’t close at 10. Most grocery stores around here do close at 9 or 10. No, people who do not have small children are expected to accept that supermarkets are public places, where they may encounter members of the public there. There is almost no meaningful demand that we segregate shipping times by age- most people are fine shopping in their own schedule even if that does risk seeing a toddler. Those who cannot abide that are so far outside of the mainstream that they are on their own. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/125 "2013-10-26T03:38:30Z")
I don’t object to seeing toddlers or babies or kids. I DO mind having kids run into me, and having meltdowns. ---
**Author:** ![OleOneEye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f14d63/32.png) [@OleOneEye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OleOneEye)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/126 "2013-10-26T06:22:49Z")
> [@CLee](#): > > You will, when it’s your turn. I was purposefully childfree until my late 30s Do you believe that everybody gets a “turn” at having kids, even people who don’t want them? (This sounds an awful lot like when my aunt used to tell me, “Oh, you’ll want them when they’re yours.”) ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/127 "2013-10-26T09:17:39Z")
> [@Macca26](#): > > Whenever we have a thread about a certain category of people I wonder where on the internet these people exist. Sometimes we have 3 pages of people decrying say…people who talk on the phone while driving. Nobody here admits to things like that. Is there a forum somewhere filled with people that gloat about talking on the phone while driving? Difficult to believe. How many among us are actually secretly the assholes we all decry, then? It is because of this board’s social mores, it is actually laughable how stuck up it is. We’ve had relationship threads here where not one person would admit to having an argument. I see the usual child haters are out in force in this thread, god forbid they should see or hear a CHILD(faints from shock) in public. Do you people realize you are like Scrooge? Who the hell hates the mere presence of a child?! ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/128 "2013-10-26T16:24:31Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I’m surprised that some parents think that non-parents can go without sleep. Non-parents might have the same daily schedule as parents do…that is, they might have to shop sometime between 7 AM and 10 PM. That’s…about the same times that there are free-range kids in the stores. Are people who don’t have small kids supposed to go home, sleep for a couple of hours, and then try to shop between the hours of 10 PM and midnight? Even then, there’s a good chance that Mom and/or Dad have an infant or toddler with them. This is assuming, of course, that the store doesn’t close at 10. Most grocery stores around here do close at 9 or 10. I can’t speak for anyone else, I just think that everyone shops at whatever time is most convenient for themselves, which is perfectly reasonable. It’s absurd for anyone to demand that other people change their shopping schedules to accommodate you, whether you’re the one with children or you’re the one without children. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/129 "2013-10-26T17:53:16Z")
Someone on here made a post a long time ago about how annoying it was that all of the stay-at-home moms go to the grocery store in the middle of the day, therefore clogging up the lines exactly when all of the working people are there trying to make a quick lunch break stop or whatever. I don’t know if this is actually a widespread concern, but after that, I did try to time my grocery shopping for after the lunch rush, because it doesn’t really matter much to me when I go to the store. ---
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/130 "2013-10-26T18:30:52Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Someone on here made a post a long time ago about how annoying it was that all of the stay-at-home moms go to the grocery store in the middle of the day, therefore clogging up the lines exactly when all of the working people are there trying to make a quick lunch break stop or whatever. > > I don’t know if this is actually a widespread concern, but after that, I did try to time my grocery shopping for after the lunch rush, because it doesn’t really matter much to me when I go to the store. I’ve always avoided rush hours on days I’m not at work both before and since having kids. Everyone ought to realize the post office, the grocery store, and every restaurant in town is going to be packed between the hours of 11 and 2 with people who have a limited amount of time. I take the family out between 7:00 and 11:30 and we’re back home in time for lunch and a nap. Before kids I went to Walmart and the grocery store after 9:00pm in order to avoid crowds, but not once did I ever take the presence of seniors, pesky kids or teens in these late hours as a personal affront. Really the rude adults who stop in the middle of the aisles to take a phone call or catch up with a neighbor are the worst offenders because they’ve had years to learn manners and consider others. Kids are just learning and the elderly should be applauded for retaining independence and mobility past 70. Any ire ought to be directed at those able-bodied and clear-headed adults who have years of proof the world doesn’t revolve around them. ---
**Author:** ![staili](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c57346/32.png) [@staili](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/staili)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/131 "2013-10-26T19:46:44Z")
From Monolitherial way up in the thread: > [@](#): > > It is possible to limit your negative impact on others without crushing your children’s spirit. Those are very wise words that some parents never absorb. Children can be a challenge, particularly when they are really young. A 1-year-old basically gets a free pass from me. And a parent who’s trying to do something about the situation, even ineffectively, is at least trying. But some parents think that limiting your kids’ behavior AT ALL is scarring the child for life. Or they are so self-absorbed that they just don’t think about how the child’s behavior is affecting others around them. Those are the parents that drive people crazy. I will add that I don’t think CLee is one of those parents. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/132 "2013-10-26T20:08:24Z")
> [@grude](#): > > \ > I see the usual child haters are out in force in this thread, god forbid they should see or hear a CHILD(faints from shock) in public. Do you people realize you are like Scrooge? Who the hell hates the mere presence of a child?! I see the usual “children can do whatever they want, wherever they want, whenever they want” enablers are out in force in this thread. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/133 "2013-10-26T20:25:10Z")
> [@Zombie Whisperer](#): > > I see the usual “children can do whatever they want, wherever they want, whenever they want” enablers are out in force in this thread. 🙂 Actually my main goal is to teach my kid and the two I’m temporarily in charge of to recognize they aren’t the only people in the world, to respect others, and that sometimes the needs of others come first. You know, to ensure they don’t turn out like some of the impatient, intolerant folks who would rather kids stay at home until they are 20 or so. ---
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/134 "2013-10-26T20:42:11Z")
> [@CLee](#): > > She’s not complaining, shes reveling and it’s some of nature’s best music, on par with puppies and kittens playing. I don’t expect you to like it, but if you’ll pause for a second and look at her face, you’ll see what a tremendous leap in learning and growth she has just made. **CLee** : She is fortunate to have a caring and considerate mother like you. A mother that recognizes the beauty and mystery of this delicate journey we call life. Each day she learns more about the world and you get to experience it with her, magically through her eyes. Just do us one small favor, please . . . . . Shut that spoiled brat up! We don’t give a rat’s ass about her learning and growth. We have our own problems and headaches and her caterwauling doesn’t help one bit. Stick a sock in it fer chrissakes! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/135 "2013-10-26T21:05:43Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > I see this a lot from childless people, and it flabbergasts me every time. Do they not understand that until a child is fairly old he cannot be left alone in the house without adult supervision? And therefore if the adult(s) need to leave the house for any reason, including shopping, then either they need to call a babysitter or the child needs to go with them. And it’s idiotic to call a babysitter for every shopping trip. She said she has a husband and a 13-year old. Can’t either one of them watch the younger kids for a few minutes while she goes out? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/136 "2013-10-26T23:38:38Z")
> [@CLee](#): > > Ha, like I could afford an upscale restaurant at the moment. Family style for us all the way. Please enjoy your filet Mignon in peace while I choke down yet another cheap pizza. > . I’m not sure why it should matter. Thing is, I believe I’m rather tolerant regarding noisy children : I assume it’s an unavoidable consequence of living in a human society, along with a large number of other annoyances, and if I can’t bear that, then it’s up to me to relocate to some isolated house in the middle of the woods. However, reading this thread, I realized that I can’t remember an instance of a kid squealing, or screaming, or whatever, in a restaurant, be it in a posh place or in cheap pizza place, in recent memory (except for Mc Donald type restaurants). Maybe it happened during say, the last two years, but if it did, I’ve no memory of it. And I dine out quite often. Now, I guess that’s a cultural thing and that French parents don’t bring young children to restaurants. And honestly I think it would be inconsiderate to do so if the child is likely to squeal/scream/whatever. People typically dine out to enjoy the food and each other company. Having to cope with a child’s screams would certainly be unpleasant. And I’m not sure why what would be unacceptable in an upscale restaurant would become acceptable in a cheap one. After all, plenty of people, like you, can’t afford to dine in costly restaurants. Why would it be OK to ruin those people evening, when it might be a very special day for them, for all you know? I guess my opinion is that places where adult go to enjoy themselves (restaurants, movie theaters, etc…) should be off limit for kids not old enough to behave. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/137 "2013-10-26T23:58:24Z")
> [@Macca26](#): > > Whenever we have a thread about a certain category of people I wonder where on the internet these people exist. Sometimes we have 3 pages of people decrying say…people who talk on the phone while driving. Nobody here admits to things like that. Is there a forum somewhere filled with people that gloat about talking on the phone while driving? Difficult to believe. How many among us are actually secretly the assholes we all decry, then? > . I guess that what happens is that typically people who phone while driving post only in threads about assholes who let their children throw a tantrum, and people who let their children throw a tantrum post only in threads about assholes who phone while driving. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/138 "2013-10-27T00:13:46Z")
I rarely hear kids squealing/screaming in restaurants either, and we tend to frequent the kind of el cheapo family-friendly place where supposedly this is a rampant epidemic. My theory about this is twofold: 1, a lot of people interpret any noticeable sounds from children as “squealing” and there is a lot of hyperbole in anecdotes about this sort of thing, particularly on the Internet; 2, on the relatively rare occasions that there IS a screaming child, it’s so incredibly annoying and obnoxious that it’s really memorable and colors the rest of your experiences with small children around. I spent many a dinner when my kids were babies or toddlers, walking around with them outside the restaurant, after having to remove them due to a tantrum. I’ve seen many other parents doing the same. In my experience (and maybe I’m just hanging around in a classier level of suburb than some of the rest of y’all are, I don’t know) it’s rare for parents to just leave a screaming kid in place, as opposed to leaving with the child to go outside. Now, laughing kids, kids making loud fart jokes, kids not remembering to use an indoor voice, etc.: That, I experience on the regular. But IMO that’s very different from screaming/shrieking/tantruming. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/139 "2013-10-27T00:35:45Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > She said she has a husband and a 13-year old. Can’t either one of them watch the younger kids for a few minutes while she goes out? I don’t know her situation. Maybe her husband has to work late. Maybe the son has school obligations. I know in my own family my wife often goes shopping with our young son without me because I’m at the office until late at night. But it really could be anything. I give people I don’t know the benefit of the doubt, and assume they know what works best for their family. ---
**Author:** ![flatlined](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@flatlined](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flatlined)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940/140 "2013-10-27T01:14:30Z")
Back when I lived in BFE, the kids at the local dives were usually quiet and well behaved and well tended. The upscale places didn’t usually have kids because they were too expensive. It was the chains that were terrible. Dennie’s and IHOP were so awful that I wouldn’t eat there because I knew that there would be SS’s with their very SS kids who needed to explore and learn. I’m sure there is a lot of comformation bias in this post, but I really do like kids. I like seeing them smile, I like hearing them laugh and play. I also like puppies and dogs, but I don’t like them impacting me in an annoying way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-open-letter-to-the-public-about-my-noisy-kids/671940.md?page=8)