# An SF novel "so bad no publisher could be found" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 2, 2003, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448 "2003-12-02T05:41:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ender\_Will](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ender\_Will](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ender_Will)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/1 "2003-12-02T05:41:46Z")
In Spider Robinson’s introduction to _Callahan’s Crosstime Saloon_, he relates an anecdote about an author who bet his friend that it was impossible to write an SF novel so bad that nobody would publish it. The friend turns out the worst, most hackneyed piece of junk he could, and not only did it get published, the public demanded two dozen sequels. Anyhow, anybody know if this story has any truth to it, and if it does, what the book was? ---
**Author:** ![Gmork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f19dbf/32.png) [@Gmork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gmork)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/2 "2003-12-02T05:55:27Z")
I wish I knew! Now I’m going to be checking this thread for responses all day… Maybe I should do some research… ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/3 "2003-12-02T05:58:18Z")
{u}Mission Earth, by L. Ron Hubbard Okay, maybe not. But I dare you to get through the entire series. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/4 "2003-12-02T05:59:25Z")
No idea how true the story is, but it’s supposedly about the first Gor novel–I think the author’s name was John Norman, but I also think that was a pen name. I have no idea how long the series ended up being, but there were more than twenty books. Yeah, these are the books where the men are studly and the women are slaves. If you’re into hackneyed SF, the first few books aren’t _too_ bad (disclaimer: this is based on my recollection of reading them back in high school)–I’ve certainly read worse writing. ---
**Author:** ![Gamaliel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b487fb/32.png) [@Gamaliel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gamaliel)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/5 "2003-12-02T06:00:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Krebnar the Magnificent \* > \*\*{u}Mission Earth, by L. Ron Hubbard > > Okay, maybe not. But I dare you to get through the entire series. \*\* I did, in high school. Thankfully, I remember little of it. (High school _and_ Mission Earth) ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/6 "2003-12-02T06:02:40Z")
I’ve always heard it was A. E. van Vogt and _The World of Null-A_. That’s only what I’ve HEARD, I am making no claims as to the truth of it. I’m perfectly willing to entertain the notion that the Gor books were started on a such a bet, too. I cannot explain their true suckiness otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Arden\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/7 "2003-12-02T06:05:39Z")
> [@](#): > > the first few books aren’t too bad (disclaimer: this is based on my recollection of reading them back in high school)–I’ve certainly read worse writing. The first however many of the GOR books were written by John Norman and I liked them. When he died, his son took over writing them and they are pretty WTF? I think John Jr. has some real issues with women because if you think the slaves in the first ones were treated badly, they had a life of luxery in Paradise compared to Junior’s GOR. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/8 "2003-12-02T06:06:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Krebnar the Magnificent \* > {u}Mission Earth, by L. Ron Hubbard > > Okay, maybe not. But I dare you to get through the entire series. I got through the entire series. The thing about L. Ron Hubbard is that he was an awful, awful writer–but a natural storyteller. I rather like _Ole Doc Methusela_, _Slaves of Sleep_, and _Typewriter in the Sky_. I just wish he would have been willing to let his writing be edited more. ---
**Author:** ![Ender\_Will](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ender\_Will](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ender_Will)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/9 "2003-12-02T06:14:40Z")
One piece of follow-up info that could be useful. Robinson said that it’s a pretty famous anecdote and if you ask around at any SF convention you can find the answer, but “I don’t want to name names, as his estate might sue” ---
**Author:** ![Gamaliel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b487fb/32.png) [@Gamaliel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gamaliel)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/10 "2003-12-02T06:22:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lynn Bodoni \* > \*\*I’ve always heard it was A. E. van Vogt and _The World of Null-A_. That’s only what I’ve HEARD, I am making no claims as to the truth of it. \*\* Were there any sequels to Null-A? Otherwise, I’d believe this was it. Sooooooo bad. Thankfully I remember little of this too. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/11 "2003-12-02T07:08:48Z")
I will probably be savag-- errr, ripped to shreds for this, but I always wondered if the titles were either _Doc Savage, Man of Bronze_, or _The Grey Lensman_ series. The _Gor_ books certainly sink low enough to fit the description, but when I first heard about the criteria (i.e., “so bad no publisher could be found”), I somehow formed the impression that the books in question were supposed to have been produced during the “Golden Age of Pulp,” (to coin a phrase). My impression was probably erroneous. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/12 "2003-12-02T07:14:57Z")
[Previous thread on the subject](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43184), which eliminates some of the apparent likely suspects. No clear answer, but one likely suspect appears to be the “Captain Future” series by Edmund Hamilton. ---
**Author:** ![DreadCthulhu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DreadCthulhu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DreadCthulhu)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/13 "2003-12-02T07:34:34Z")
The worst single piece of “science fiction” ever written was [The Eye of Argon.](http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~susan/sf/eyeargon.htm) Don’t read this link if you value your sanity. Really, it is that terrible. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/14 "2003-12-02T08:10:01Z")
Just remember: Frank Herbert’s _ **Dune** _ was rejected by 17 consecutive publishers before Berkeley Books picked it up. ---
**Author:** ![Short\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Short\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Short_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/15 "2003-12-02T09:01:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DreadCthulhu \* > \*\*The worst single piece of “science fiction” ever written was [The Eye of Argon.](http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~susan/sf/eyeargon.htm) Don’t read this link if you value your sanity. Really, it is that terrible. \*\* Eegad. I’ve just read the first chapter, and I need to lie down. This thing was _published_? ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/16 "2003-12-02T09:09:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kaylasdad99 \* > I will probably be savag-- errr, ripped to shreds for this, but I always wondered if the titles were either _Doc Savage, Man of Bronze_, or _The Grey Lensman_ series. > > The _Gor_ books certainly sink low enough to fit the description, but when I first heard about the criteria (i.e., “so bad no publisher could be found”), I somehow formed the impression that the books in question were supposed to have been produced during the “Golden Age of Pulp,” (to coin a phrase). > > My impression was probably erroneous. Umm, yeah, please consider yourself ripped wrt the Lensman series, because (a) it was written waaay too early to be the subject of this rumor (I don’t recall the dates offhand, but it may have been written before the term “science fiction” was even coined), and (b) it’s the definitive space opera and it RAWKS! Doc Savage, on the other hand, sucks IMO. I managed to force my way through the first book but have NO desire to read any more of them. ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/17 "2003-12-02T09:10:01Z")
> [@](#): > > **Short Guy** > quote:Originally posted by DreadCthulhu > The worst single piece of “science fiction” ever written was The Eye of Argon. Don’t read this link if you value your sanity. Really, it is that terrible. > > Eegad. I’ve just read the first chapter, and I need to lie down. This thing was published? You read a whole chapter of that? I couldn’t get past the first paragraph before my brain needed a good scrubbing. **DreadCthulhu** , you think you’re clever don’t you? This is part of the terrible revenge for me knocking Lovecraft isn’t it? You _knew_ I was lurking in this thread and had to post that to lure me in. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/18 "2003-12-02T09:15:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Short Guy \* > Eegad. I’ve just read the first chapter, and I need to lie down. This thing was _published_? I don’t think it was ever actually published, just endlessly circulated between fans. There should be a transcriber’s note at the end with a little more information. What you do with the EoA is gather your friends together at a party or whatever and give 'em each a copy. Then you take turns reading the story aloud EXACTLY as it’s written (typos and all)–when one person makes a mistake or busts out laughing, the next one goes. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/19 "2003-12-02T12:44:37Z")
I’m frequently appalled at what does get published. I think that Fanthorpe’s stuff is actually worse than **The Eye of Argon** , just better edited. It’s even worse than Hubbard’s junk. Yet not only did his stuff get printed – it got reprinted, so it’s not just contractual obligation. **Galaxy 666** went through at least three editions (!!!) And there are plenty of other examples. **The Null-Frequency Impulser** , Don Pendleton’s **Cataclysm!** Yechhhh. If nothing else, it should give encouragement to aspiring authors. If this crud could get published, _somebody_ ought to be willing to publish yours. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448/20 "2003-12-02T13:05:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arden Ranger \* > \*\*The first however many of the GOR books were written by John Norman and I liked them. When he died, his son took over writing them and they are pretty WTF? I think John Jr. has some real issues with women because if you think the slaves in the first ones were treated badly, they had a life of luxery in Paradise compared to Junior’s GOR. \*\* John Norman is alive and well. I spoke with him at a sci-fi convention last April. After being blacklisted by the publishing cabal for years, he has found a new home publisher and has resumed the series. As far as I know, he never died.🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/an-sf-novel-so-bad-no-publisher-could-be-found/216448.md?page=2)